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Abortion
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2011-07-08 19:30:05
That's a huge slippery slope fallacy. That is not what he said.
You tend to do that a lot, Beef.
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 00:28:58
ok, when i asked about anal, before i went to work i didn't expect such a response... lol... ok I know there is a POSSIBILITY that things can leak out of one area and into another, but seriously...? lol You need to be in a certain position, for a decent period of time, for that to happen I would think, and really? you're not gonna clean up as soon as a man busts a nut? Thats just wrong lol... The least the guy could do is clean up lol.....
Asura.Poupee
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5330
By Asura.Poupee 2011-07-09 00:41:16
My opinion on abortion:
It should 100% of the mothers choice rather she wants to keep the baby, or get an abortion, or even give it up for adoption.
She has to go through birth, she has to change her life style rather not she does give it up or not.
Also for girls under 18 there should be some sort of law or something so no matter what you choose, you HAVE to finish High school.
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Leviathan.Novax
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3826
By Leviathan.Novax 2011-07-09 00:42:33
No one HAS to finish high school, that law would go against that.
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 00:42:59
But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol
Pandemonium.Scrumpet
Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3727
By Pandemonium.Scrumpet 2011-07-09 00:44:44
Fairy.Spence said: Ramuh.Krizz said: This thread... Should have been aborted?
/spenceface Omg, I laughed so hard! D:
Spence, this is why you are amazing!
Asura.Poupee
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5330
By Asura.Poupee 2011-07-09 00:45:11
Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-07-09 00:46:38
Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS.
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 00:46:43
:( I would want a say in my unborn child's life... Thats all I'm sayin. You are a dictator Poupee! lol
Pandemonium.Scrumpet
Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3727
By Pandemonium.Scrumpet 2011-07-09 00:47:03
Leviathan.Novax said: No one HAS to finish high school, that law would go against that. Looking at it from an economic point-of-view, it would help tremendously to increase our standard of education and our quality of education.
A law may be too much but, the penalties for an unfinished education should justify the cause.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 00:47:39
Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol It is unfair, but oh well. Ultimately it's the woman's body. Shouldn't nobody be able to say ***about what she can do with it.
While it's unfair, that's just how it is. He's not the one who has to be pregnant for 9 months.
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 00:48:27
Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not.
[+]
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 00:49:20
Tigerwoods obviously didn't see the movie Junior with Arnold Schwarzenagger (no idea if i spelled that right or butchered it lol)
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 00:50:10
to be fair with the level of education people have, a lot more people should be failing due to the fact that they pass way too many people who don't deserve it.
Leviathan.Niniann
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 00:51:27
Ifrit.Eikechi said: ok, when i asked about anal, before i went to work i didn't expect such a response... lol... ok I know there is a POSSIBILITY that things can leak out of one area and into another, but seriously...? lol You need to be in a certain position, for a decent period of time, for that to happen I would think, and really? you're not gonna clean up as soon as a man busts a nut? Thats just wrong lol... The least the guy could do is clean up lol.....
This is a bit TMI, but it's difficult to wipe there without touching your vagina even just the slightest. I still wouldn't recommend doing anal without protection of one form or another.
Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol
Childbirth messes up a woman's body. Plus even if the man were rich she'd still have to pay child support.
Anyway men don't have babies growing in them, they get no say. Obviously I think that a man and a woman should talk it over and she should listen to his argument, but in the end it's her decision.
Asura.Poupee
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5330
By Asura.Poupee 2011-07-09 00:51:31
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. exactly
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 00:51:41
Ifrit.Eikechi said: Tigerwoods obviously didn't see the movie Junior with Arnold Schwarzenagger (no idea if i spelled that right or butchered it lol) lol in that case, he could decide, but not Devito! So there's still a man who can't make the choice!
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-07-09 00:52:53
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. She won't have to take care of him for the next 18+ years
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 00:54:46
Lakshmi.Flavin said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. She won't have to take care of him for the next 18+ years So?
If someone wanted me to go through body changes for 9 months and I didn't want to, I'd say *** you.
I'm assuming girls like to do the same.
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Asura.Poupee
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5330
By Asura.Poupee 2011-07-09 00:55:00
lets say if you(in a woman point of view) are going to achieve something big and just steps away, and you got pregnant which now totally destroys your chances on getting to that goal unless you can get an abortion.
what would you do?
and lets say the goal is your dream job.(INB4Parentingismydreamjob)
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 00:55:29
How is that TMI nini? lol Chuu was describing it as "goop" earlier lol... how is mine more offensive?? lol *shrug*
Pandemonium.Scrumpet
Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3727
By Pandemonium.Scrumpet 2011-07-09 00:55:37
Ifrit.Eikechi said: :( I would want a say in my unborn child's life... Thats all I'm sayin. You are a dictator Poupee! lol Like a good woman should be! ;)
Going on the fact that the father desperately wants a child, why would you want to keep the child that was born from a heartbroken relationship?
Roll the dice again. :/
My view, as a future health care professional, if the pregnancy is high risk, the option of abortion is a given.
If the pregnancy is healthy, a seminar of some sort that would enable the mother to take time on deciding if it is the right choice should be required.
I was a high risk pregnancy while in the womb.
My mother was told to abort me and, the doctor almost did, without her consent.
My mother, being the strong woman she was, told the physician she'd rather die and bring a new life into this world than live knowing that she left an unsung hero in silence.
My view is a little opinionated. xD
Bahamut.Serj
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-07-09 00:56:12
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. She won't have to take care of him for the next 18+ years So?
If someone wanted me to go through body changes for 9 months and I didn't want to, I'd say *** you.
I'm assuming girls like to do the same.
I have to agree with both of you. Doesn't physically affect the male at all. They shouldn't have a say.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-07-09 00:57:08
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. She won't have to take care of him for the next 18+ years So?
If someone wanted me to go through body changes for 9 months and I didn't want to, I'd say *** you.
I'm assuming girls like to do the same. I'm biased in this situation so I'm just gonna agree to disagree and bow out.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 00:59:20
Alright, but just to be clear, it's not a pussy on a pedestal type deal "oh she's the lady, she gets to decide"
It's purely and solely based on the fact that the entire burden of the pregnancy and child birth is on the woman.
If it were the other way around, I'd tell women *** you, you have no choice as well.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 01:00:17
Bahamut.Serj said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Lakshmi.Flavin said: Asura.Poupee said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: But Poupee, what if the father has like a crazy amount of money and doesn't mind supporting the child by himself...? Shouldn't he have a say in the life and death of his own offspring? Sounds a little unfair to me... Hell even if he doesn't have a lot of money it sounds a bit unfair lol no Takes two to make a baby but only one to make the decision to go through with it or not... BS. Only 1 person has to carry the baby for 9 months inside them.
Until a guy is capable of doing that, that's just how things are. Unfair or not. She won't have to take care of him for the next 18+ years So?
If someone wanted me to go through body changes for 9 months and I didn't want to, I'd say *** you.
I'm assuming girls like to do the same.
I have to agree with both of you. Doesn't physically affect the male at all. They shouldn't have a say.
I'd disagree, however I can't articulate a compromise into the situation so meh.
Also it would conflict with the "it's a clump of cells etc" point.
I would say that if the woman doesn't want an abortion and the man did, that he should not be required for child support payments.
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 01:00:23
OK Tiger is just stickin up for Poupee (I think) but Serj... please hand your man card forward.... lol
But seriously, you're saying if a man's first child was aborted it wouldn't affect him in ANY way? I could see some guys getting very depressed over it, and potentially leading to other problems. ESPECIALLY if the guy had ZERO say in the matter... *edited*
Leviathan.Niniann
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 01:00:28
Pandemonium.Scrumpet said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: :( I would want a say in my unborn child's life... Thats all I'm sayin. You are a dictator Poupee! lol Like a good woman should be! ;)
Going on the fact that the father desperately wants a child, why would you want to keep the child that was born from a heartbroken relationship?
Roll the dice again. :/
My view, as a future health care professional, if the pregnancy is high risk, the option of abortion is a given.
If the pregnancy is healthy, a seminar of some sort that would enable the mother to take time on deciding if it is the right choice should be required.
I was a high risk pregnancy while in the womb.
My mother was told to abort me and, the doctor almost did, without her consent.
My mother, being the strong woman she was, told the physician she'd rather die and bring a new life into this world than live knowing that she left an unsung hero in silence.
My view is a little opinionated. xD
Aww, your mother is a better woman than I. D:
Asura.Poupee
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5330
By Asura.Poupee 2011-07-09 01:01:08
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Alright, but just to be clear, it's not a pussy on a pedestal type deal "oh she's the lady, she gets to decide"
It's purely and solely based on the fact that the entire burden of the pregnancy and child birth is on the woman.
If it were the other way around, I'd tell women *** you, you have no choice as well.
damn tiger :(
vs Kansas:
Kansas to Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic Friday | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/kansas-shut-down-all-abortion-clinics-friday
Quote: This story has been updated below.
It's official. Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1. As we reported last week, strict new state laws put in place this month threatened to close the remaining three abortion clinics in Kansas. The staff of one of these facilities, a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, initially thought their operation could survive the strict new standards. But on Thursday afternoon, Planned Parenthood announced that the Overland Park clinic has thus far been denied a license to continue operating—effectively cutting off access to legal abortion in the entire state.
The new law, which takes effect Friday, establishes new standards for abortion providers—standards apparently designed to make compliance difficult. The rules require changes to the size and number of rooms, compel clinics to have additional supplies on hand, and even mandate room temperatures for the facilities. Given that the rules were released less than two weeks before clinics were expected to be in compliance, many providers knew they wouldn't be able to obtain a license to continue operating. The laws, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or TRAP laws, are an increasingly common legislative maneuver to limit access to abortion by redering it tough, if not impossible, for providers to comply.
With today's announcement that the Overland Park clinic was denied a license, Kansas becomes the first state to effectively make the legally protected right to obtain abortion services moot. One clinic in Kansas has already filed suit against the new rules, and a hearing on that suit is planned for Friday. Planned Parenthood is also expected to sue. The clinics are also expected to seek an injunction to block the law from being enforced. UPDATE: Planned Parenthood has filed suit. They are seeking an emergency injunction to allow their clinic to remain open while the lawsuit is pending.
"The women of Kansas waiting on their scheduled procedures will pay the immediate price for this outrageous and flagrant exertion of the radical GOP’s legislative muscle under the Brownback administration," said Kansas NOW in a statement Thursday, referring to conservative Republican Gov. Sam Brownback. "The freedom and right to legal healthcare has been denied to the women of Kansas."
UPDATE: In a statement issued Thursday evening, Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, seemed to hold out some hope that its clinic could still obtain a license to continue operating, even as the organization sought an injuction to block the law from taking effect. "We have been targeted in this bill and Kansas women are the ones who will suffer if their health care is taken away," said Brownlie. "This is radical, extreme government intrusion into private health care."
UPDATE 5:45 PM EST THURSDAY: The Associated Press is reporting that the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, after initially denying a license to Planned Parenthood, has now changed their mind. Stay tuned for more updates. PP said inspectors were back at the clinic Thursday reevaluating it, after earlier this week indicating that they would not be able to obtain one.
UPDATE 6:08 PM EST THURSDAY: Planned Parenthood just announced that the health department has, in fact, decided to grant it a license to continue operating. The PP clinic in Overland Park will remain open. "Notwithstanding that the regulations are burdensome and unnecessary, the findings of the inspection indicate what we have known and said throughout this process: Planned Parenthood operates with the highest standards of patient care and has rigorous safety procedures in place," Brownlie said.
UPDATE 7:15 PM EST FRIDAY: A federal judge in Kansas City has blocked the new abortion clinic regulations from taking effect.
Kansas Judge Blocks Abortion Clinic Regs | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/07/kansas-judge-blocks-abortion-clinic-regs
Quote: A judge in Kansas has blocked the state's strict new regulations on abortion providers from taking effect, a move that will allow all three clinics in the state to continue offering services, the Kansas City Star reports.
On Friday afternoon, U.S District Judge Carlos Murguia granted a request from two clinics—Aid for Women in Kansas City and the Center for Women's Health in Overland Park—to grant temporary relief from the new rules, which took effect July 1. The clinics were denied a license to continue operating after the state issued new rules on June 17 that would have required both clinics to make major changes to their facilities. A third clinic, owned by Planned Parenthood, was granted a license to continue operating on Thursday.
The injunction will remain in place until the court hears the formal challenge to the state's regulations.
"This is a tremendous victory for women in Kansas and against the underhanded efforts of anti-choice politicians to shut down abortion providers in the state," said Center for Reproductive Rights president Nancy Northup, which joined with the clinics in filing the legal challenge to the law, in a statement Friday evening. "The facts were clear—this licensing process had absolutely nothing to do with patient health or safety and everything to do with political shenanigans."
The Kansas legislature passed a new law in April creating a new designation for abortion providers under the state's licensing system, and directed the Department of Health and Environment to issue new rules. The department issued 36-pages of rules on June 17 (though the clinics did not receive copies until June 20), mandating things like the size of waiting and recovery rooms, the number of bathrooms, and the required temperatures for each room in the facility. Clinic owners argued that it was impossible to meet the new standards, given that they were released just two weeks before the clinics were required to comply. Moreover, they argued, the rules had little to do with protecting patients and were designed to shut down the clinics.
This type of law, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or "TRAP" laws, isn't exactly new or unique, but Kansas' would have gone farther than others in actually shutting down abortion providers.
Kate Sheppard covers energy and environmental politics in Mother Jones' Washington bureau. For more of her stories, click here. She Tweets here. Get Kate Sheppard's RSS feed.
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