SCH Top Mage?

Well I was away from FFXI for a few months I got back on and SCH was given new stuff. And its quite amazing, but is the SCH Top Mage now? Like now it can buff stats and stuff like that... And I've been receiving lots of meripo invites, even though I don't want to pt, I still do? But what does everyone else think, is the SCH really the Top Mage? or just over powered?

It's top mage in versatility. It still doesn't quite beat everyone else, though a recent study showed that a SCH with perfect gear can outnuke BLM...which is quite alarming, if I do say so myself.

i say sch is not over powered or the top mage and by far. If they could give refresh then maybe rdm might worry but don't think so and when you want to nuke something down you turn to a blm.

SCH is a pretty versatile job. Period. However, with the upcoming update for WHM, I'm pretty sure they'll be bumped back down a notch comparatively (in terms of overall healing ability). In terms of damage-dealing, they're pretty amazing. They can definitely out-do any mage on the DoT field. As /RDM, they have access to Bio II + -helix spells which can add up to some serious ouch. You'll also be able to take advantage of Fast Cast + Light/Dark Arts for some decent reductions in your casting/recasting time, I believe. If you really dig DoT, /BLM will give you access to Bio II + elemental DoT (Burn, Choke, Shock, Drown, Frost and Rasp) + -helix spells.

In terms of outright blow-'em-up spells, it's still pretty hard to stack up to an amazingly equipped and talented BLM, but if you're well-equipped and smart about it, you can do comparably well. SCH is a great job for you if you really dig both healing and elemental aspects of the mage classes.

I think SCH could nuke fairly well unless it comes up against something with higher resists... in which case BLM's A+ in Elemental will clearly shine through.

I disagree with that. SCH would definitively be the Top Mage if it was given Haste. Scholars best feature are its different stratagems and among these Accenssion and Manifestation. SCH's weak point is though, its extremely dependant of its subjob.

all i can say is
i enjoy sch :]
able to do what a whm and blm can
not over or not less but in the middle
can do more , but moreso its likely to be
in the middle (depending on gear)

Fixed that for ya. BLM still wins in the short term thankfully, but given an ideally geared and merited Taru (yes it must be Taru, you need the INT here) you're strong enough to out-damage a BLM over time just by being far more MP-efficient. BLM still brings Sleepga Stun and lots of DoT to the table, but in terms of pure nuking the hybrid job is currently poised to overtake the specialist. As a BLM main, that worries me a little bit.

yes you can be worried... because when i see a Taru SCH go for a Thunder IV 1500+ at Pudding camp its really worrying, its just 200 damage less than my Burst II (hume BLM here) so yeah...

so giving them Haste would litterly put RDM out of the window for the merit PTs side, it happened to WHM already i'd be sad to see that happening to RDMs too, giving them refresh, unless its to refresh all the PT at once i see no point since they alway have this weird trait/ability up which cancel Refresh, in that case RDM would be still owning enfeeb part but heh, don't nerf mah RDM for meripo ;; !

Then along came the BLM with perfect gear.

Until you get a BLM/SCH in the frey.

Then the BLM/SCH > SCH/BLM....

But any sane BLM would not sub SCH unless they absolutly know that the lack of blink/stoneskin/phalanx isn't going to change things any.....which is an event I haven't found yet.

Maybe if the BLM is going to solo Despot or something, then yeah, BLM/SCH it is.

Is this not another, is NIN a better tank than PLD question or vice verse.

It really depends on the situation is all im going to say. Yes im sure it is the best mage in some situations, but as BLM is in some situations and as RDM is in some situations and as WHM is in some situations. You cannot simply say one is better than the other in my opinion.

I've found that BLM/SCH works well in Dynamis when zerging Dynamis Lord. I can get off 2 freeze 2s and 2 burst 2s and a thundaga 3 and more if he isn't dead yet. Of course the PLDs are 2hring so i don't have to worry about hate.

That can go for just about any DD job vs another DD job. ><;

That begs the question why you go BLM when you have DRK levelled, lol.

Blu > All

I think this says it all really, personal opinions.

Play what you enjoy :)

I'm not a BLM or anything... but im REALLY good friends with one. To put it like he said "The thing that bugs me about SCH is that the get T4 Nukes, that was supposed to be a BLM thing onry, thankfully though they don't get AM". From that i would guess the other part of the job (IE Sublimation) don't really bother him, but again im no BLM, not yet anyway... :D

Rng > All Mages

I cure with bolts ***.

Lol, of course tier IV nukes were Blm only; being only two jobs ever had the ability to cast black magic. :P

I got that part, I just didn't understand your friend's logic is all.

Guess he feels like he was robbed of his identity a bit? lol

*** it, give Rdm Tier 4 Nukes as well, just make them a merit catagory. That way RMT will never have em.

SCH gets T4 nukes, sure. And DNC gets Dancing Edge. Doesn't mean DNC is the new THF, and SCH is not the new BLM. In a way, SCH > BLM just like BRD > COR. The BLM can do their job much better, but it's just not efficient. Just like with COR, you have much better buffs than BRD, but you have to wait for Phantom Roll recast. Well BLM has much better nukes than SCH, but you have longer recasts.

That being said, BLM can also get a ton better gear than SCH (SCH can't use Morrigan's or Sorcerer's Ring) and the SCH will never do more damage per-nuke.

Party-wise, SCH also suffers from Light/Dark Arts recast, aka one Dispel per minute. Even COR can do better than that. SCH has no defensive spells so when you do take hate, you're going to take damage and create even more for yourself to have to worry about.

The lack of refresh also hurts. People always say it's okay because SCH has Sublimation, but RDM isn't valued because they can refresh themselves. They're valued because they can refresh others.

Reduced skill means more resists, no Haste is just an obvious setback, Stratagems are mostly just there to make up for their lack of actual skill or useful JAs/JTs (SCH doesn't get MAB IV, or any MAB for that matter, nor does it get Fast Cast, Divine Seal, Elemental Seal, Convert, etc.)

The one thing SCH does have is Enspell-ga, though it's only useful with fast-hitting jobs.

To answer the OP, no, SCH is not the best mage. SCH is not the second best mage. SCH is not the third best mage.

Your forgetting that in a party, If you have a SCH has its new merit "Stormsurge" we can boost the party's attributes which then makes things quite amazing for the DD, which they love.

And I saw above a well geared SCH can nuke like a BLM, it can quite actually. When I go to the Pudding Camp, I out nuke most BLMs until they pull out there AMII T.T

Get a Cor or Brd to make the DDs happy >:o

:P

True we can't buff like COR or BRD, because I love them too :DD Because they can refresh a SCH :P

Thanks, Nightfyre. I meant to say that.


Actually, it's not really about the perfect gear with BLM. The big problem here is that SCH was handed BLM's best damage/MP spells (tier IV nukes). I'm sure you've heard of the 320/120 skill/INT ratio, correct? BLM reaches this no problem, and stacking much beyond it is fairly pointless. Thing is, with the right gear, SCH can almost reach this ratio, as well, and due to SCH's ridiculous MP conservational abilities, even if BLM nukes much harder than SCH, SCH wins out in nuke damage over time because it can nuke at a comparative amount to BLM and for much longer.

I'm not too worried, though. The job is broken, but like I said, it'd essentially take perfect gear for SCH to be able to go neck and neck with BLM seriously, so I'm going to keep the faith that some SE informant keeps tabs on player studies of this game so that they can give BLM the boost it deserves to stay on top of SCH, 'cause a hybrid given the potential to beat the uncontested, superior and specialized job is utterly ridiculous.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/34049.html Here's where I'm getting this information, by the way, if you're curious. Though he's banned now, Kaeko remains a very authoritative figure on all things BLM.

That's all irrelevant. You said "The perfect gear SCH", I'm saying "The perfect gear BLM". The bestest Scholar in the world will not beat the bestest BLM in the world. Period. You raise the point, I counter the point with the same point; I could say my COR will perform better than a lot of RNGs, and it probably would; I know full well I can never beat RNG though, not if the RNG's are the best. It's the same principal.

Give a BLM everything that makes them the perfect BLM, then compare the same perfect SCH. BLM would win, so really, it's not actually a relevant point. Scholar might be good, but you won't be seeing every Scholar going Mount Zhayolm and soloing Puddings anytime soon.

People make it out like it's the apocalypse for Black Mages... Your every day, run of the mill player will not beat a decent Black Mage without an exceptional setup. One of the main points, as well, is what somebody else said; after a certain level, Elemental Magic difference will seriously start to gimp the Scholar's damage.

Bottom line, though, if a Scholar can out nuke my Black Mage, I'm not going to be crying about it anytime soon. It's just ridiculous to act like Scholar is the new Black Mage. It's seriously not, and it will take an exceptional Scholar to change the mainstream acknowledgement of a Black Mage's nuking capability.

Edit: Sorry for the snappy post, I have a headache, and headaches, sea and a debate don't mix. xD