AllSeeingEye

It was cheating and anyone thinking ASE/Clipper/Tako is going to be built in because TP party and draw distance and timestamp and auto stacking were is mad.

There are still some useful tools which could be implemented that wouldn't be this extreme like zone timer, skillchains, dunno what else...

No ones suggesting any of that.

This is the issue and why SE will never take an official adoption stance, along with the fact the official XI client doesn't support addons.

Blizzard has since release had client side detection of cheating. I'm sure it's gone through multiple iterations since the start but the idea is the same - they have the ability to detect unauthorized tools on client systems similar to other online titles. There was a big uproar when it was found initially because it was doing things like sending process lists back to Blizzard which caused massive butthurt. IIRC at one point people were banned if IDA or Windbg were running in any context. You can bypass these things in various ways but the point is that SE doesn't have anything like this for XI so they can't enforce it.

The result being that they have no control or ability to inspect what's running on the clients to look for unauthorized addons. So they can set rules but it can't be enforced, basically the same way it is now. The other issue is that the vanilla client doesn't support addons, WoW AFAIK has an official API of some sort - Windower/Ashita aren't developed by SE and they have no control over it. If they give official blessing of it then they are opening themselves up to several potential issues (bugs on the part of Windower/Ashita causing server side problems, cheating, etc). They have no way to test or validate these clients on release, they don't control the code, etc. So there's no real benefit to doing so, it's all risk, and they can't control it any more than they can now anyway, so what's the point?

They will likely never approve of certain addons as a result, but they also can't enforce a lot of what goes on either. At this point, Windower/Ashita are probably the only reason XI is still even viable even if you just use cosmetic improvements, it'd be nice to see them recognize this and find a way to make it official - but it's unlikely due to technical issues, company culture, and possibly even legal issues (SE may be subject to legal agreements if they aren't responsible for all the code in the client).


Pretty sure I remember people complaining about Windower in 2003-2004ish timeframe and saying it's cheating. Granted that's not a universal take and is subjective.

I think there's a big difference between windowed mode so you can look at BG wiki and skipping content. Maybe one day SE will remove the assault requirement from mythics; I think it's extremely unlikely, but it's possible. I don't think anyone has the right to say/assume/guess what the next SE update will be and start implementing it today because they want it.

I very much object to the term "QOL" being applied to...well basically any of this stuff. I think the discussion in the comments of this reddit post is a good one. QOL is, to me, about the smoothness of play and shouldn't have anything to do with balance, difficulty, or game mechanics.

Windowed mode is QOL
Higher resolutions are QOL
60 FPS would be QOL (though with some timed events being based on your FPS in cutscenes...there's a bit of balance here...)
In-game gamepad menu is QOL
Changing the size of HUD is QOL
/itemsearch is QOL

Viewing the mob's HP% is not QOL
Viewing your distance to a mob is not QOL
Removing the 1s delay on equipping gear is not QOL
Removing knockback is not QOL

I think the line is pretty clear, at least for me. If it affects gameplay, it's not a QOL adjustment anymore.

OK, so what about /showpartytp, isn't that basically cheating since it can affect gameplay and gives an advantage? Well I think there's definitely an argument to be made that it affects gameplay, but SE are the developers of the game, they're allowed to affect gameplay. They literally select the stats of all the enemies in the game and decide how much damage you do. It's their job to balance the game, so when they decide to add something to the game, at that point it's no longer cheating. For every second up until the patch lands though, I think the line is pretty clear.

As to whether they should cooperate with windower/addon developers, I don't think that's necessary at all, other than perhaps getting some data on the popularity of each addon, maybe?

I don't believe SE is holding off on producing any of this junk because they can't or don't know what people want, I believe they're not releasing it because they don't agree with the balance or think it fits in their design principles.

What is clear to you doesn't matter. If you are using any sort of third party tool you are considered a cheater according to the TOS.

You keep making these arguments where you get to pick the line, and, of course, the line is very convenient to you.

Been over this 1000 times before.


If you run a calculator at the same time as ffxi, you're not breaking tos. If you run a program that changes the RGB lights of your case, it's not breaking tos.

If you wanna argue how windower changes the gameplay of ffxi, I'm ready to take this thread to page 25, but you're gonna need to bring more to the table than gif trolling

At this point, beyond blatant cheating like ASE, does anyone actually care?

I care less about ASE for Salvage all the people flee hacking.

Knickblock/anchor is worse cheating than ASE too but I also don't care about it.

XIV is a good example of a game with a more modern engine, that they still refuse to add anti cheat to. They refuse to add it because they know they have a large second life community, that would quit if they did.

XI is kind of similar, you don't goto war on something that if you win you kill the game.

What are you advocating for? Square Enix as a whole had total and evident disregard for quality-of-life improvements in FFXI and watched over the years as the Windower and Ashita teams changed dynamics. They could have done all that, but they chose not to, and they neither chose to patch it up. Ironically, I still believe Square Enix were glad and thankful those third-party tools came into development to make up for their lack of development.

I can argue the purpose Gearswap/Ashitaswap with you all day long, but I will draw the red line where automation/botting comes into play, and that is NOT the core of their purpose.

If the game provides me with 80% FC (or 70%? don't remember the cap haven't played in years) why can't I use all the fastcast gear the game provides to cast a nuke with full nuke set potency? because the native macros can't handle the spell batch fast enough. Did SE over the span of 20 years' work on improving that? no, did they give a ***about improving it? no, then step aside captain, Windower and Ashita made that possible.

Here is an example of a developer that cares about quality of life, and cares with keeping up with the demand of play styles and game efficiency.

New pictures for those who were not playing during the HNM times...




More coming soon...

can this thread be locked?