Mattress Firm Refuses To Sell To Muslim Woman

Dude I was all up in that thread, of course I read it lol I don't see that as evidence that we need to 'save them'; if anything, I see that thread as another great example of Prejudice In Action.

Do some reading on Islamic Feminism, you'd be surprised how little they need us to save them from themselves. And there's a very active resentment of that attitude among the Muslim community. ***, the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize winner was an Iranian woman who fought for human rights, for chrissakes. Whitey needs to get off his high horse.

I'm guessing he or she didn't. I really want to know Kanji's gender too now.

Did you even read that thread? I was probably one of the most common posters.

Really? You didn't say anything about Queen Rania.

I was here the whole way through. Obviously you didn't read the earlier parts.

I also didn't say anything about the dozens of other female Heads of State in the Middle East. But, yeah, she is a fantastic example of why Muslim women are perfectly capable of deciding their own way of life. Thanks for pointing her out.


*blink* *blink*

I'm on the very first page of that thread. ...I don't get you.

Lol of course you do. Every last islam woman could be beaten in the streets and every man a terrorist and you would see merely reporting it as prejudice.

And cmon it's been a long time since the Nobel peace prize was given to someone deserving it let alone the most deserving. She only got it because she was an Iranian woman fighting for human rights. And if they didn't need help then why was she fighting? Why would she even be considered?

Atheist. They're spiritual beliefs are superior to all others.

"We don't follow examples; we set them" ~ President George W. Bush. I'm not Muslim. Not a member or follower of any religious culture, as a matter of fact. However, I think we could take some pages from their society and learn from them. They have 1 of the lowest crime rates in the world. Greece being the lowest, I believe. In any event, I hardly believe anyone needs more saving than the U.S. We've been slowly degenerating to nothingness. The countries that DID try to follow our examples; the ones we "saved" are garbage, worse than they were before. S.Korea, Honduras, Iraq.... the list goes on.

Wow. Iranian woman significantly challenges the norms of her very conservative and genuinely oppressive society and affects real change. But it doesn't count, right? Because she's Iranian. And a woman. :|

Seriously, dude, wtf.


They don't need help from us because people like her exist and are far more common than most of us in the West seem to realize. I mean, this isn't exactly new. This sort of movement has been going on for a while now. We did it ourselves, too, in our own society. We didn't need them to come save us. Are we really so inherently better than them that they aren't capable of figuring their own ***out for themselves?

She was considered because she largely succeeded, of course, which is just more evidence why they don't need us to save them from themselves. Jeez, it's like we're talking about savages in Africa or something.

So, just because I read through it doesn't mean I haven't...I don't get you. LOL! Why are you dodging my questions?

What questions?

Edit: Seriously, are you high? He asked me if I'd read that thread. Not only did I read it, I was there when it was posted and posted on the first 3 of its 4 pages. What are you even talking about?

The fac that you immediately assume those reasons is even more wtf.

Ok maybe need is a strong word. But they could certainly use it. Think about how much of a struggle it was. How many people got hurt and killed in order to change things by themselves. How many more are being hurt and killed because you don't care to help out your fellow man.

No one needs me to hold a door open a couple seconds longer for the next person but ***it's just nice

I didn't 'assume' anything about her: I've read about what she did. She rocks. I mean it when I say you should read up on Islamic Feminism. There are some awesome women over there doing amazing things.

And a large, large number of them disagree with your views about what's best for them. (They disagree with some of my views, too.) You know what? That's their call.

I find it incredibly ironic that, in a post where just a few pages back, people were talking about Muslim men imposing their views about modesty onto their wives and how wrong this is, we're now debating whether or not it's right for Western men to come in and tell Muslim women how they should be living.

It's only wrong to tell women what their place is when it's the wrong place, amirite?

Nationality? Gender? I'd like to know. Are you just an uber-bleeding heart, armchair politician American? Some of those cultural aspects could mean a lot in this conversation. Do you know who Queen Rania of Jordan is? How about Queen Noor? How many Islamic people do you personally know? Just curious.

(Yeah...I will admit that I'm drunk, so you are very entertaining to me.)

I'm not giving you ammo to slander me, sorry.

I said yes to knowing about Queen Rania. Her existence is exactly my point. Are you suggesting we need to go 'save' her? lol No, of course not, she's perfectly capable of 'saving' herself, as well as pretty much her entire country. As are lots of other Muslim women. Which is all I'm saying.

I dated a Muslim for almost 2 years and was friends with their family. Watching them put up with bigoted *** for most of that time, as well as other Muslim friends since then, has made me a bit jaded, so that's why this is such a hot topic for me. But, yes, I do know plenty of Muslims, I'm not just some bleeding-heart armchair politician with pie-in-the-sky ideas about this stuff. I've been indirectly affected by most of these nonsense stereotypes myself, and frankly, I'm sick of them.

I don't want to slander you! Paranoid?

I never said she needed to be "saved". I said she is the kind of progressive Muslim woman who should upheld in their society! But, then again, a society can not be truly progressive unless they change their views on sexuality.

I have friends that are Muslim too. I only find fault with extremists and their attitudes towards women and children.

I can't really make up my mind on the whole denial based on race / religion argument..

I mean sure it sucks when you are excluded... I've been segregated myself before too... some places refuse to serve american's ^^


It just seems everybody is so close-minded (ironic >_>) when it comes to the discussion of cultural specific shops or stores...

I don't know what a good system would be.. I don't believe a government should engage in systemic segregation...

but at the same time I do believe shops should be able to serve / cater to who they choose and deny those they don't want to serve based on whatever methods they decide.


I feel the community can always shun a shop if its methods of service are so abhorrent with bad publicity like this article is portraying.

Stop reading what you want. I clearly meant the reasons you listed for me saying that.

Really your saying some of them don't think they should have the freedom of choice? Doesn't sound very feminist to me.

It's only ironic because you read it that way. It's actually the same message you are just twisting it both ways to be make it seem contradictory.

But sure there is something inherently wrong with something that is wrong. Way to win the captian obvious award

I know you didn't say they need to be saved; others are saying that. I think most of the people on this forum would be absolutely shocked if they learned how many Muslim women there are in government positions in the Middle East -- or that they actually outnumber the women in government positions in American and European countries. (Not joking.)

But if the balance of power ever truly levels between men and women in a meaningful way in the Middle East (or the West for that matter lol) and then women decide, amongst themselves, to adopt a form of sexuality that is conflict with ours, that's their business, not ours. It's no more right to march into Iran, say, and dictate Western sexuality, than it is for an Iranian husband to demand that his wife cowtoy to his beliefs. If we recognize that Saudi Arabia doesn't afford women equal rights, the solution isn't to charge in and give women 'equal' rights on our terms (because then they aren't really equal), but to sit on the sidelines and, at best, cheer them along as they demand equal rights of their own. Which they're already doing.

I've been wondering if she has been doing just that for a while.

No, I'm saying freedom of choice means enjoying a different understanding of modesty if they so choose, and dressing in a way that you find oppressive if they so choose, or doing any other number of things that fly against your culture norms, because your culture norms are completely freakin' irrelevant. Freedom of choice means not being fined $200 and potentially facing jailtime because you want to wear your religious outfit even though you live in a country that perceives your dress-code as an affront to freedom -- the ultimate irony of all.

Telling women how they should dress and behave is wrong whoevers' doing it, whether it's Captain Whitey the Heroic or Muslim Husband of Fail.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. I said them being forced to wear it is oppressive. Read more argue less.

No, you said Islam was oppressive, that we need to save them from themselves because they're incapable of saving themselves.

And yet it's illegal even if they're not being forced. It's illegal even if they choose to wear it. And the justification politicians prop up for this is that we need to save them from themselves, like you want, because, like arawan suggested, they presumably can't say no, since they'll be killed if they do. Or (and this is particularly rich, but French politicians have put it forward) because they've been brainwashed. Yes, there's respect for women's rights, right there: a women wants to dress a certain way that we find incomprehensible? She must be brainwashed! We have to rescue her from herself.

The narrative I hear over and over again is that Muslim women can't stand up and decide these things for themselves because Islam is oppressive, and so we need to decide it for them -- that, somehow, deciding it for them is how we preserve women's right to choose.

So, you feel the same way about Hasidic Jewish women and maybe a fundamental Christian denomination, like Pentecostals, and their garb?

Well cmon it's the french... but really it's no worse then being forced to wear one. One could claim it's actually better because at least you are giving them a much larger amount of choices and that they could still wear something that is different but serves the same function as they claim it is for.

Absolutely. And Amish, etc. If a woman truly wants to dress a certain way because she feels it's --insert religious sentiment here--, that's none of our business and certainly not something we should outlaw or, jeez, refuse to sell a bed for. There's nothing 'respectful' about that. We're not upholding women's freedom by doing that. In the case of Belgium, we're actively making their lives harder.

See, this is what gets to me. "One could claim it's actually better because at least you are giving them a much larger amount of choices"? Yeah, maybe from your cultural perspective. What if she doesn't see it that way? Who are you to tell her how she should look at it?

Lol I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it the way it is. A larger amount of choices is still a larger amount of choices. And if they really only wore it for the whole decency etc thing they could easily wear something else that serves the same purpose. Regardless who are you to say it's all right to give them only one choice and take away all others instead of allowing all others and taking away one?