RDM/DNC @Bird Meripo

I like not having fun in meripos D:
It lets me think about all the juicy fun things I can do after all the merits :3

I've never actually tried RDM/DNC in a meripo, though the other night we had a RDM/DNC meleeing/curing/enfeebling/refreshing the WHM in an East Ronfaure [S] party. It was a little slower compared to having 4 DDs instead of 3 and a meleeing RDM(naturally), however he kept up his MP with not only curing with Cure IIs/IIIs but with Waltz and Drain Sambas, and never converted once.

I was skeptical at first, but it turned out to be pretty effective, although this couldn't really be compared to a big-time meripo. While I did have a PLD/DNC main heal in a meripo, it was a while back so I don't remember the exact EXP overall but it was a pretty good turn out. He Aspir Samba'd and threw on a Vermy when his mp was lower then desired. While most people laughed and critizied me and my friends because there was no haste didn't really affect us at all. We had fun, we got a good amount of merits, and that was all that really mattered to us.

You commenting on my paragraph is what makes it wrong.

if you can't haste all your dds, that's an autofail

No haste on melee
TP feeding
yag drinks on rdm
drain samba is better for damage and for keeping people out of yellow if you already have a dnc or /dnc, meaning that the rdm is going /dnc instead of /whm to keep a lower mp pool full and not contributing anything extra to compensate.

That's about all that's really wrong with your paragraph that I can see. The main point is that the rdm is adding more tp than damage and is doing nothing to enhance the total damage of the other members of the party (and not hasting them in favour as melee-ing them as rdm/dnc is, as Kelia said, auto-fail). Rdm's job in meripo is to keep everyone alive and hasted so as to increase total damage of the party. If you can do that while melee-ing, then I honestly couldn't give a crap, but doing your job > melee.

If there are no jobs with mp in your party, I'd actually be happier inviting a DD whm with mythic ws than a DD rdm.

Mystic Boon = Epic win

To those who offered support and got something from this, God Bless!

To everyone else who wrote negative comments, specifically anything "Blah Blah Blah fail" just go back to your cave.

I made my argument, it can be done... end of story, knowledge disseminated.

Can Jaerik or Scragg close this thread down?

Maybe I should have read the first three pages, but seriously, learn to take criticism, if you're onto a great idea and no-one will bother to try it, then that's their loss. But chances are people know their ***and would rather get 20k+/hr from meripos.

I've actually done this. And it was pretty decent. Around 30k an hour at lower birds. Didn't think other ppl thought of this until I saw the topic... haha.

Edit: And also the pt was a Blu burn, 3 Blu Rdm/Dnc, cor and brd.

Just like haste, the 20k figure was just another thing taken out of context and blown out of proportion.

It was an approximation. I don't play on pc, I'm a console player.

It's a number that was tossed out at me. At that If we were doing 20k/hr for a PUG Meripo in the middle of the night NA GMT-5 time... I don't think that's all that bad.

As for the learn to take criticism comment? Meh... I still don't see where I was being defensive. Unless the meaning of the word has changed I'm really at a loss here.

@Trainwreck /cheer!

I think you defending your points, counter-pointing their critism counts as being defensive, instead of being quiet and just taking it and thanking them for it.

;>.>

Now don't that beat all...

The world surely has turned and left me here...

Like I wrote before in an earlier post... you thrust, I parry... you punch, I block... By the way things are usually handled on this forum, my conduct on this thread has been exemplary.

Now why would anyone want to thank someone for this kind of input/response?

Sarcasm, yay! n.n

Damn, I never accept blu burn invites because every time I have they all suck <_< Although rdm brd and cor would be a damn good start, I just don't see how 3 blu's can get close to the sort of damage that a 4DD party can. I know that on the odd occasion that I merit I'm usually the highest or second highest DD as blu, but I also don't usually party with the pimpest jobs either.

And Malekith, maybe criticism wasn't the right word, but asking for the thread to be closed because people disagreed with you seems a little... naive close-minded?

Ah my apologies. Text flies over my head and I sometimes forget to look into it or examine it a bit more.

Anyways, to stay on topic: I'm glad some folks are open minded and will at the very least try new things before rejecting them, rather than some sheep I see here on this thread.

My friends and I are always up for doing things in different ways. If they don't work, then they don't work. If they do, then hooray. We like to share such experiences with other players, but things such as RDM/DNC meleeing or PLD/DNC main healing we just get pointed and laughed at.

OMG I was being sarcastic <o<;

I actually bet 3x blu would dish out some severe damage.. (presuming they knew what they were doing) and instead of giving haste, the rdm would be giving refresh lol

I remember back in the day when CoP was brand new, I was meriting in Lufaise Meadows on Abraxxas and this JP wanted to try out PLD/NIN (the concept was pretty unheard of for the time) and everyone felt skeptical but it turned out to save alot of MP and hate control wasn't as horrible as everyone thought it would be.

We got really good exp and everyone left home happy. Coulda been better if we had a THF but there really is no harm in trying new things. If it doesn't work then you can always go back to what does.

@Blazza When you get to a 4th page of people repeating the same arguments as to why the very idea being suggested sucks, it gets old.

In various prior posts I had outlined gear used, party setup, camp, and problems we encountered that inhibited the exp. Everything so mentioned could easily be built upon, corrected, and/or enhanced as needed.

Yet... people see "no haste" and they knee-jerk type "Fail!" I made my case why it wasn't an issue, and still people make the same comments... leaves me to make one of two conclusions 1) people don't want to/ can't read and 2) that it'll be more of the same in pages to come.

Given the above, why not close it down? What purpose is served by leaving it left open...

***


Really people ought to put sarcasm in () before stuff lest there be any misunderstanding.

Anyways... I apologize. I can see how you meant it now.

Thanks for support. ^^

I probably should, this wouldn't be the first time my sarcasm has been taken seriously <_>;

I wish they hadn't gimped the curing power on /dnc, when Dancer had been introduced I leveled it to 37 quickly and subbed it on my 75 MNK. I was soloing everything! It can be very versatile and usefull for soloing. I've used it in Merit Parties as well on MNK for fun but only with friends. Good on you for trying something new and sharing your experiences.

While the OP probably is overstating his effectiveness, RDM/DNC should have merits (haha, pun! >_>; ) in a Greater Colibri party.

1. Even with full party Haste and self Refresh and a Dia II every bird, a RDM isn't casting all the time--at least, not literally.

2. Yet, doing a "/heal on" lowers reaction time for cure--with anything less than perfectly attentive front line, people will get hit relatively often, and the RDM is exacted to be able drop Cure III/IV instantaneously--which makes healing for MP often not safe.

3. If a RDM not casting, he can be swinging for (potentially) some TP--which with /DNC can be converted into the fastest form of cure RDM has access to outside of Chainspell. It's MP free, too.

4. Aspir Samba will help keep up MP. (Of course, the more MP you need means the more time spend casting means less time meleeing means less MP from Aspir Samba--a real downer.)

* * *

Not hasting the WAR/NIN (or NIN/WAR) doing the Provoke is just stupid--that's the person spending the most time on Utsusemi casting out of anyone in the party, and can benefit the most from shortened recast time--so he can use Ni instead of getting hit trying to get Ichi up--so the RDM don't have to cure him... Even for completely selfish reason, at least cast Haste on the 'tank'. >_<;

A party that doesn't need haste... Well, technically most parties can go without Haste and still function, but if a RDM75 can't see how helpful Haste is... /sigh

* * *

It's been a while, but I have tried melee'ing Greater Colibri on RDM/DRK, with Peacock Charm, Woodsman Ring, another Acc+3 ring, Swift Belt, Scorpian Harness, and Squid Sushi--and I was no where near accuracy cap. Oh, that's with four sword merits.

Joyeuse and haste gear do go well together, but accuracy gear will help TP gain, too. Especially the RDM who doesn't have that much time to melee (because he's hasting all melees plus BRD), he must make each swing count as often as possible. >_>b

It's nothing about how well a party functions without haste. That's a completely irrelevant point. The whole idea of a merit party is to get the fastest experience possible. Not hasting damage dealers seriously lowers the damage your party will be doing over time.

Disputing this would be like disputing 2+2=4.

Well, in base 3 maths 2+2=11

has anyone actully looced at the hast stats on this stuff, or should i say thought about it, if you have dismissed this then ok here it is:-

Walahra Turban - 5%
Swift Belt - 4%
Haste Spell - 15%

with just them alone without joyeuse but using a martial anelace i start swinging hevery second and a half, (i dong have a joyeuse cos i cant get help with charby end of) that alone is 24% haste, it serves me fine soloing VT to IT mobs as /NIN meleeing, none of theis kite noncence

i am gonna ask this question, WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD when somone tries to do something different and has some fun doing it, does everyone shoot him dows coz he is a RDM meleeing. if that how you think you just one sided. SEREIOUSLY think about it.i seen PLD/DNC solo IT++ mobs with out batting out a Cure IV coz thier TP is giving them enough for curing, if is good enough for the likes of SAM, PLD or any others then WHY not be good enough for RDM. having another option to cure is a bonus as RDM/DNC down side is yes keeping up TP and lowe MP Pool.

and you are fogetting something he said IT WAS TO HAVE SOME FUN F U N, damn why the hell does people have to take a game so serious. an and he also stated from the beginning that chains was lost due to replacing members killing way to fast than repops, these things DO mess with exp/hour.

and anyways why the *** should you care, its his exp/hour his PT and if they all happy then STFU and get a life. stop shooting somone down coz they tried something different. many times i hace asked for what sub job for meripo, all the time i get told "i dont care, sub PUP for all i care,just keep people alive".

who are the selfish ones here. the people that just wanna be serious and get the fastest exp/hour or the poeple that like tho have fun and experiment. i for one have reached 43k/hour as 5xSAM/NIN 1xRDM/NIN and by the way the RDM never really cured, MP was alway topped up, never needed to cure more than once per mob sometimes was only refreshing, when you got through 8 mobs kill practically instantly fron TP to death then yeah RDM get bored. i was that RDM/NIN i DID melee, 43k/hour, now you can STFU and if you really care here was my gear:-

main - Martial Anelace
Sub - Hornetneedle
Ammo - Bibiki Seashell
Head - Walahra Turban
Neck - Spider Torque (and i never change this)
Ear 1 - Anivenom Earing
Ear 2 - Insomnia Earing
Body - Warlock's Tabard
Hands - Crimson Finger Gauntles (Yeah NQ ones coz i dont care if i get HQ)
Ring 1 - Zircon Ring or Aquamarine Ring (depends on macro)
Ring 2 - Zircon Ring or Aquamarine Ring (depends on macro)
Back - Amemet Mantle (NQ one again got something to say about it, then why dont ya gice me 200k for HQ one :P)
Waist - Swift Belt
Legs - Jet Seraweels
Feet - Deulist boots

i dont cate if you think this is a half assed set up and yeah no CoP rings or Zilart earings coz i aint that far though them and to be honest i dotn care about your oppinions about my gear, i use what i got and what i can get.

i for one would leave a PT if i all i am doing is standing there doing nothing or healing 90% of the time. i like fun and excitement in any PT, i think its fun when i end up tanking as RDM in PTs. if you think that is wrong then yeah you think that way. some best stratagies (altho not alot) have RDM melee or maybe tank. anyways dont shoot somone down for tryign something different.

and nice job i never gave RDM/DNC a thought. gives me a reason to lvl it now so i can try it out :P and yeah me and a friend who is a SAM both agree on this one point, we would try any type setup at least once to see how it goes and may use that set up again in future. in the end of the day every one in the PT is gaining EXP, after all ITS A GAME, G A M E, let people experiment, its not your EXP that its effecting.

Hell in Sky farming my LS has BRD and RDM meleeing, no one dies, quick deaths, and we all having fun, is that not what the concept of video games are all about, just to have some fun and entertainment.

oh and 43k beets your 30-35k/hour, thats with NO BRD and WITH RDM/NIN Meleeing. so STFU. i got 29 merits from that 1 PT alone :P and i did forget to change my sub but the PT was happy to give it a try, that beats any exp/hour in merit PTs with me a /WHM

i also never cast haste any PT member except me :P that blows your theory that hasting all DD will get you more exp/hour

DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU HAVE TRIED IT its not traditional but yeah some times it works

Is what I mean, also "2handers getting the most from haste" is a dumb thing to say. Every melee gets 15% haste, they all benefit equally with approximately the same % increase in their DD output, assuming they are more or less equally well geared. Now only hasting the best DDs... that's another fish.

I think everyone knows what haste gear is available Mr. Martial Anelace. For example: My RDM has 16% gear haste from Walahra turban, swift belt, dusk gloves, nashira seraweels, and dusk ledelsens. Should I for some reason use Goliard Saio instead of Scorpion Harness, I'd be at 20% gear haste. My BST (BST, for god's sake!) has 19% gear haste with better stats on it than lolseraweels or dusk feet. as well as 19 more innate skill in its main weapon, and as good or equivalent ear options in Brutal earring, suppa, assault earring, and a multihit weapon which is (very) slightly better than joyeuse in terms of DA rate because it stacks with brutal. My BST can out-DD my RDM without even bothering to weaponskill and not counting a pet. If you count those, it'll outperform it by miles. So yeah there is a stigma with melee RDMs and the stigma is that IT IS NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK IT IS. I mean, ffs, unless you sub WAR DRK PLD or BLU, your best WS is a glorified Fast Blade with a pretty flower animation. And even then a RDM's vorpals leave a lot to be desired.

1h DDs are just lacking innately accwise, also; my PLD has better DD gear than my RDM thanks to the options available, and even eating pizza with an A+ merited weapon and some of the best acc gear, my acc doesn't get above 87% on birds. I think I may have had madrigal or hunter's for some of that pt, too. ***, even relic WHMs eat sushi. :(

My main objection to a RDM/DNC in a merit pt is that it's a waste of a slot, and by extension it's a waste of a party spot in crowded camps. If you want to try that in Uleguerand range (enjoy trying to hit demons lol) or deco weapons (enjoy your max chain #14 or so) be my guest. But don't insult parties capable of better exp by bringing a 3 mage pt to a merit camp and expecting to keep it when you can't even kill repops. Equally, don't expect a pickup pt to indulge you, the point is to get exp as quickly as possible, and by not allowing that you are insulting them and wasting their time.

Because yeah, RDM/DNC needs a second healer. You need a real erase for elegy, don't tell me the best bard never gets hit with it because it happens and Healing Waltz doesn't erase it. You also lose a ton of efficiency losing Curaga II, the /DNC aoe is not as potent. Everyone who argues this "playstyle" tries to skip over the fact that if you don't bring a second healer, you may as well stand back and heal between buffs, because you will be casting 60-75% of the time for one reason or another and will barely have time to swing as the OP stated. You are not fulfilling an adequate support role if you cannot haste all your DDs. It's as simple as that.

Let's not forget that as well as doing all that, you still have to pay the same care and attention that a melee would in constantly moving to use autotarget (because if you don't autotarget the next mob, there's a 2-3 sec gap where you're not DDing, and more attentive people are), making sure the mob doesn't follow the puller back (Animated Flourish...? Yeah, bring a WAR or get thwacked, can't have lengthy stoneskin casts lowering you in the parse!) popping food whenever it's taken (Enjoy carrying stacks of carp sushi around for after emergency cure 4s) WSing if you have 100% TP (oh wait, need to save tp for dancing rite?)

Don't forget, if you are resting, your full attention is on the PT. For the reasons given above, I prefer to idle in auto-refresh when not actively casting and above ~500MP (most of the time MP remains stable or gradually declines every ~8mins towards Convert) so that I can react faster if a pt member takes damage or is slept, rather than being stuck for 5secs in the animation when I break resting. Conversely, if you are meleeing, you need to be paying attention to your own buffs- enspells or whatever- as well as TP% and when to change targets, so your full attention will not be on the PT and you will react slower.

Oh yeah and you are killing slower because instead of inviting a DRG who even in 100% AH gear will out-DD and outcure you by miles, you wanted to melee. So enjoy being forced out of your camp by a PT who cares enough about their time to invite someone who actually contributes!

tl;dr: invite a drg/whm and get back to hasting people and AFKing in between if curing is that hard.

Oh yeah Darkvision, as a RDM, your "gear" is disgusting. I would kick a melee DD who showed up in equivalent gear and I would certainly kick you. The only way you got 43k/hr is with anniversary ring and checking expwatch after the first mob. Stop trolling.

Keep hatin~