Japan Earthquake/Tsunami
Langues: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » Everything Else » Chatterbox » Japan Earthquake/Tsunami
Japan Earthquake/Tsunami
First Page 2 3 ... 18 19 20 ... 61 62 63
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2011-03-12 00:24:35
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
  
Post deleted by User.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:25:46
Link | Citer | R
  
Well what can you expect after americans being raised on godzilla shows always watching japanese people running and panicking!?!
[+]
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:28:15
Link | Citer | R
  
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
@BBCBreaking via Twitter said:
0548: The plant's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, tells AFP: "We believe the reactor is not melting down or cracking. We are trying to raise the water level."
That statement kinda scares me. The fact that they are saying beleive... then the water lvl thing... sounds like they have uncovered there core. At which point they kinda making assumptions
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2011-03-12 00:29:59
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
  
Post deleted by User.
 Titan.Prefalin
Offline
Serveur: Titan
Game: FFXI
user: Prefalin
Posts: 2232
By Titan.Prefalin 2011-03-12 00:30:03
Link | Citer | R
  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
@BBCBreaking via Twitter said:
0548: The plant's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, tells AFP: "We believe the reactor is not melting down or cracking. We are trying to raise the water level."
That statement kinda scares me. The fact that they are saying beleive... I mean either they are idiots or things are really bad and they have no reliable indications and for all they know the core is uncovered which is bad, or they have horrible PR people
one thing i dislike is that some stuff is mistranslated c.c; not saying that is but its possible
 Asura.Alymorel
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Alimorel
Posts: 4560
By Asura.Alymorel 2011-03-12 00:31:49
Link | Citer | R
  
Well, youtube has a channel full of eyewitness accounts about the earthquake/tsunami for those who wish to see.

Here.

[+]
 Caitsith.Taazy
Offline
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: taaz
Posts: 133
By Caitsith.Taazy 2011-03-12 00:33:23
Link | Citer | R
  
Quote:
0625: The quake death toll rises to more than 700, the AFP news agency reports
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:34:09
Link | Citer | R
  
Asura.Catastrophe said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
@BBCBreaking via Twitter said:
0548: The plant's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, tells AFP: "We believe the reactor is not melting down or cracking. We are trying to raise the water level."
That statement kinda scares me. The fact that they are saying beleive... I mean either they are idiots or things are really bad and they have no reliable indications and for all they know the core is uncovered which is bad, or they have horrible PR people
Holy crap, its about time you got in here!

I wouldn't think there's any real indicator on fuel temp though on the RCCP amirite?
Usually no we don't use direct temperature readings of the fuel itself for alot of reasons. However we've done lots of testing to know how that it would be ok given certain temperatures, pressures and flow rate of the coolant. I would assume a situation like this they shut it down fast. Most reactors are pretty much designed to after shutdown not melt down as long as you keep liquid coolant covering the cover. So what I read into this is they aren't sure if they have a steam bubble formed in there or they have lost so much coolant from a leak they aren't sure. I'd have to read up more on the actual core type and stuff to postulate much
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 00:36:28
Link | Citer | R
  
OK, fill me in here: how does Dasva know about this stuff? I feel like I've just stumbled into something.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2011-03-12 00:39:17
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
  
Post deleted by User.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:40:45
Link | Citer | R
  
Oh yays BWRs... I always find it ironic when they say they have problems cause they have lost power to the pumps... that pump water to something that PRODUCES electricity.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
Administrator
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Jaerik
Posts: 3834
By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-12 00:42:47
Link | Citer | R
  
Make no mistake about it, we're talking Katrina-like levels of property damage here. Not in Tokyo, but definitely up along the northeastern Honshu coast, like the city of Sendai.

It's a serious situation, but earlier posts in this thread about millions of homes destroyed in the capital compelled me to jump in and calm folks down.

As long as the people of Japan are not running around screaming in panic, (and so far that's not the case), then staying level-headed, cross-checking your news sources, and calmly sending whatever donations you can is the best way to help right now.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 00:44:39
Link | Citer | R
  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Oh yays BWRs... I always find it ironic when they say they have problems cause they have lost power to the pumps... that pump water to something that PRODUCES electricity.

I was looking this stuff up and learning about it a few pages back and found this very strange lol
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:44:43
Link | Citer | R
  
Asura.Catastrophe said:
They use a BWR, so its kind of *** backwards in regards to pressure control. Natural circulation in their primary loops, they call them RCICs they operate at about 1100 psi and an unknown but obviously lower temperature than our PWRs. So its kind of a different animal with the same safety systems.
Yeah just read those are BWR. They work good just wouldn't do good in the field so to speak. The concepts are similar though. Keep liquid on core = good. Sounds like they lost secondary cooling therefore loss of natural circ, so all the heat and pressure is just building up and they are venting it... which is kinda a temp solution at best. And of course not being pressurized they have no idea where a steam bubble might be though most likely in the core itself
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:45:45
Link | Citer | R
  
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
OK, fill me in here: how does Dasva know about this stuff? I feel like I've just stumbled into something.
I used to be a reactor operating in the Navy... currently applying for a few civilian reactor operator positions... speaking of which I just got an email about a position opening up in NM that I need to respond to
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 00:47:38
Link | Citer | R
  
Two Navy reactor operators in one post. CNN, eat your heart out.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:50:16
Link | Citer | R
  
Honestly it wont/cant be that bad in terms of outside dmg. However that plant might be done or at least need new fuel and alot of clean up which will be extremely costly. And the media coverage of it could do huge harm to nuclear powers image for decades if it's bad enough. People still talk about 3 mile island which was kinda bad but was pretty much completely contained in the plant. And yet it is largely why america who was one of the first into nuclear power is one of the furthest behind in nuclear energy. Well the media coverage and all the idiots they got on tv talking about it
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
Administrator
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Jaerik
Posts: 3834
By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-12 00:50:55
Link | Citer | R
  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Catastrophe said:
They use a BWR, so its kind of *** backwards in regards to pressure control. Natural circulation in their primary loops, they call them RCICs they operate at about 1100 psi and an unknown but obviously lower temperature than our PWRs. So its kind of a different animal with the same safety systems.
Yeah just read those are BWR. They work good just wouldn't do good in the field so to speak. The concepts are similar though. Keep liquid on core = good. Sounds like they lost secondary cooling so all the heat and pressure is just building up and they are venting it... which is kinda a temp solution at best.
Not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys sound, but from what I've heard from the beginning on Japanese news, the problem seems to be a sustained coolant leak caused by quake-ruptured intakes.

The JSDF and USAF have been shipping in some kind of extra coolant, which they're piping directly into the reactor past the leak. But there's a steam pressure build-up from the initial loss that they're trying to figure out what to do with. There was a long debate over whether to vent it... I'm not sure if they've started yet.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 00:51:31
Link | Citer | R
  
If there is a steam bubble in the core, what does that mean for their prospects? And what can they do about it? Can they even find it for sure?
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2011-03-12 00:51:47
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
  
Post deleted by User.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 00:52:57
Link | Citer | R
  
They vented steam hours ago, Jaerik. They're dumping water on the core now.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
Administrator
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Jaerik
Posts: 3834
By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-12 00:56:50
Link | Citer | R
  
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
They vented steam hours ago, Jaerik. They're dumping water on the core now.
Ah, okay. I've been in the air so I'm a few hours behind on the news.

I heard it was a problem with damaged coolant lines, but I've also heard it's just a power problem to the pumps. I'm not entirely sure who to believe at this point.

I'll defer to you guys. =)
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 00:57:24
Link | Citer | R
  
Asura.Catastrophe said:
I do have to say in defense though, this was a very unusual situation regarding a tsunami dropping the backup diesel generators AND external AC power. I'm beginning to question the news quality being delivered on this issue, now that Jaerik has mentioned skewing previously and Kanjirou bringing up that quote.

At least its not an RMBK. Graphite is the *** devil.
Psh you know if that was ran by the navy they would've ran drills on such a situation granted we also have batteries (seriously though why don't civilian plants?)... another reason why in crazy situations PWR better. We could just bleed some steam make some electicity and bam.

Hey graphite moderates like a champ. It's just that whole positive reactivity coefficient makes things a little more tricky
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
Administrator
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Jaerik
Posts: 3834
By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-12 00:59:40
Link | Citer | R
  
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
If there is a steam bubble in the core, what does that mean for their prospects? And what can they do about it? Can they even find it for sure?
It means coolant potentially can't get to the rods, and they will melt under their own heat. Hence, "meltdown."

That doesn't necessarily mean catastrophe. It means the core and the fuel are pretty shot, and the plant itself is probably looking at years of cleanup before its operational again. But this kind of thing is what those massive containment domes are for.

Three Mile Island melted something like 2/3's of its core and nobody got hurt. Chernobyl was only a disaster because it had no containment, due to the USSR building it on the cheap, and the disaster happened so quickly that a steam explosion blew the entire core, and all its radioactive fuel, straight into the atmosphere.
 Phoenix.Degs
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Degs
Posts: 2448
By Phoenix.Degs 2011-03-12 00:59:54
Link | Citer | R
  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
They vented steam hours ago, Jaerik. They're dumping water on the core now.
Ah, okay. I've been in the air so I'm a few hours behind on the news.

I heard it was a problem with damaged coolant lines, but I've also heard it's just a power problem to the pumps. I'm not entirely sure who to believe at this point.
basically what happened is, there is no power... and thusly no cooling is able to flow and cool the reactor, they said if its not fully cooled within 48hrs then a meltdown will occur... so they are venting and doing other cooling measures to support this process... though they are still not sure it will work
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2011-03-12 01:00:29
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
  
Post deleted by User.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 01:01:22
Link | Citer | R
  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
They vented steam hours ago, Jaerik. They're dumping water on the core now.
Ah, okay. I've been in the air so I'm a few hours behind on the news.

I heard it was a problem with damaged coolant lines, but I've also heard it's just a power problem to the pumps. I'm not entirely sure who to believe at this point.
Not sure about japans regulations and a little rusty on US land based ones... but generally one of the requirements is something alone the lines of having the capability to just drown the entire reactor compartment or something in case of a fast unisolable leak. So even if you you completely sheared off the normal cooling pipes... but then again 8.9 and tsunami wouldn't be suprised if back up of back ups broke. The only reason the plants did so well is how strong they are required to be built.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Kanjirou
Posts: 475
By Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou 2011-03-12 01:01:32
Link | Citer | R
  
@BBCBreaking said:
0631: A BBC news team lands at Fukushima airport, which shows no signs of damage. The team describes seeing 20 helicopters, including some emergency teams.

When I heard the report about emergency teams being dispatched earlier (in response to the claim that the fuel rods may have melted), they said it was a precautionary measure. It sounds like these teams are just standing around now, waiting to see what happens.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-12 01:04:18
Link | Citer | R
  
Asura.Catastrophe said:
Man *** that. Ewwww. I bet that would have been exciting for you haha. Knowing a moment's notice death is lurking over you shimming 1/4 inch too far out.

There's still some factor in this story that I'm really not getting, because if their batteries are operating properly there shouldn't have been much more of a problem am I right?
Psh it's not that bad. 1/4 inch doesn't do ***unless you are the army and design the worlds worst reactor and then have people manually pull rods out for maintenance... goddamn army.

Idk if they even have back up DC power. Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like disiel is there only back up power
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
Administrator
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Jaerik
Posts: 3834
By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-03-12 01:05:01
Link | Citer | R
  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Psh it's not that bad. 1/4 inch doesn't do ***unless you are the army and design the worlds worst reactor and then have people manually pull rods out for maintenance... goddamn army.
But I bet it was the lowest bid! ;)
Top Show Op
First Page 2 3 ... 18 19 20 ... 61 62 63
Log in to post.