Making Hexa Better

I notice a lot of people are making the DA magian. Why not the OAT? I was under the impression that the OAT was superior, but now I'm curious. Other than the fact that DA can proc on ws where OAT can't (which is irrelevant on realmrazer if you're dw and doesn't do much for hexa if you're dw as well) can someone please point out the specifics or link me to a post with more info about them?

I do have a kclub for off-hand but sometimes tp spam isn't exactly ideal. I made the OaT magian ages ago, but now I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a DA magian if I can't use kclub?

(Edited post for relevancy. Sorry. The basic question I'm trying to ask here is which is better for tp gain: OaT or DA magian?)

On pretty much all other jobs, STR\atk one is superior to DA path unless you'r capped on attack, I'm gonna assume the same for WHM (which will have a pretty hard time capping attack)

To add to what Kvazz mentioned, the OAX and DA Magian clubs have a significantly higher delay versus older weapons that were OAX, thus affecting your overall DPS. When people use an OAX-type weapon, it's generally a good idea to assume that they're relying on their WS daamge more than their white number damage. With that in mind, a Kraken Club is better because of the fact that it has a lower delay and has a higher average hits/swing versus the Magian ones.

The reason why I personally like the DA club a lot is because of the fact it's a relatively easy club to make that has some pretty impressive damage numbers on it. Chances of getting help with an Empyrean/Relic Club is low for most players unless they have a good and dedicated group of friends to help, so the DA club is a nice alternative to that.

With that being said, I am currently working on a STR/Attack fire Club to help offset the lack of Attack WHMs have in any slot. I feel a lot of what Asymptotic/Sylow says in his DNC guide can be applied to WHM Melee, specifically:


Except in our case the good mainhands are Mjollnir and Gambanteinn, mostly the former though. =p

And on the topic of attack, once again, poking at the well put together DNC guide, and quote this:


If you're gonna be a serious WHM DD, you definitely need to push every advantage you can get, as the class is lacking on many fields in the DD department.

I do understand all that, maybe I didn't phrase myself well enough at the start. I mainhand mjollnir, and maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but I don't think I'm going to offhand anything other than a kclub or an oat/da magian with how much of a snail whm is at getting tp. I do have things like fire magian if on the offchance I'm partied with a brd and/or cor and/or dd'ing in aby or vw (lol). (Completely situational depending on buffs, but you get the idea).

Basically I'm just trying to figure out if the DA magian or the OaT magian is better. I made the OAT ages ago on a whim before I got kclub. I guess to be more specific, like I said above, sometimes when I'm solo or in dyna, I can't use kclub, with some mobs that have nasty tp moves. I don't want to mpk myself with tp spam, but I don't want to kill slower than a snail, either.

I feel the OA2-4 weapon is completely dominated by the a Kraken Club because the Kraken Club can generally provide more TP/swing thanks to the higher distribution of swings/hit (I think KClub is about 3.82 hits/swing versus OA2-4 approximate 2.00 hits/swing).

In terms of OA2 versus DA with a Mjollnir mainhand, I think that depends on your play style. The OA2 should give you TP faster than the DA where as the DA club will give your Mjollnir more opportunities to proc an ODT hit thanks to the DA on the mainhand. I honestly dunno which would push ahead in terms of the math, I imagine that would depend on the mob, etc, (insert s--- is situational quote here)

Getting more tp faster is'nt always the way to go either, it sounds like you(calipso) underestimate the white dmg that clubs provide(they might have fairly high delay, but their base dmg is pretty sexy).
And with a good haste-set, tp should flow is fairly fast.
I'd say, stay clear of OA2-4, get OAT if you _need_ a non-kclub multihit offhand, and mainly just go with str or DA trial clubs.

I want to say STR / Attack offhand.

I'd say if TP spam is a problem to the point you don't want to use your KC, the DA club is probably better, or perhaps even the STR/Atk club. If you're going to use OAX, might as well just use KC at that point. However, I honestly have found myself taking off the KC less and less lately, even when soloing in Dynamis and such. The only time KC has really gotten me into trouble is against Yagudo/Orc NMs in Campaign; The Yags have lots of stun moves which can screw over a WHM who's tanking, and the Orcs have counterstance which is lultastic with KC. Barring excessive stun/terror TP moves or counterstance, there's really no reason not to use KC in any situation where you would be meleeing in the first place.

If you're concerned about it, you might look into subtle blow. I use Savateur's Gaiters, Evergreen Earring, and Ninurta's Sash in my TP set for +17 Subtle Blow. Auspice with +2 boots gives another 20, and /DNC gives 10 while /NIN gives 15. So I'm nearly capped with /DNC and capped with /NIN.

Also I just noticed the elemental path clubs have low delay, 210!
That's pretty cool :p

Kindof offtopic question, do you have to be close to the enemy to use dagan or is it a viable way to recover mp in vw if you'r somehow out of mp and mp meds but still have a tp wing? (this wont happen much anymore, but handy to know:P)

Pretty much this is why I'm starting to work on the STR/Attack Club, when you calculate out the DPS of this club versus the much higher delay DA or OAX club, their DPS is about the same while the Fire Magicn Club providing an additional offensive capability to all your attacks. There might be other factors that push the DA club ahead like it's significantly higher base Damage, but I feel it would be a really close race.


Why didn't I think of using Dagan like this? It's BRILLIANT! lol, shame you won't be off handing a TP Bonus club in this method though, ah well~ MP is MP!

....well in VW, you'd be using a TP wing ... which would give you 300TP ... so TP bonus wouldn't do anything anyhow.

...derping and herping since 2012! Go me! I'm too used to the 100TP Wings in Abyssea, I think. Thanks for the correction though~

I need to make a Mjollnir, it's meant to be.
Never really derped around with melee whm, but my RL name is Thor, so yeah >_>

I think I may be in love with you, now.

Rawr.

Well, like I said, maybe I'm looking at wrong, which is why I asked. I haven't actually used my OaT magian in ages, if I can't use kclub I don't multi-hit at all. The only time I'm really ever worried about it are a few mobs in dyna with annoying tp moves (diremites, bats -which have jet streamed me for over 1300, funguars, etc) Even with haste samba (/dnc), haste, and 26% haste, just feels like I get tp so slowly >_> Maybe I'm just too used to thf and dnc. Whm melee is fun, but it irks me at time the lack of melee gear we get. Wish there was some more da or a ta option for us. 6% max da from gear kinda sucks.

Another derpy question, is it viable at all to offhand emp club (lv 90, and assuming someplace like vw with full temps/buffs), or should I just stick to fire magian?

.. not like I'd be meleeing in vw, but after putting up with 200+ akvans and too many retards I was finally just said '*** it' and started meleeing and my body dropped >_>

i do quite a lot of solo DD whm stuff and i really dont have problems with my KC feeding too much TP. /nin gives me 15, auspice + af3 feet give 20, and then i use ACP body w/ acc;storeTP,Subtle blow, and lastly a heed ring. im basically always capped on subtle blow and mobs dont TP until ive ws at least twice. And for you Calipso, id honestly stick to Gambanteinn for most situations and not even use relic. Dagan is sooooooo useful on more difficult mobs. Im generally able to do a cycle of Dagan (cure + aftermath), Realmrazer, Dagan and maintain an aftermath as long as im using KC. i never die cuz im using dagan to cure myself for ~600 HP every 30 seconds, and i use utsu ni when its up. i really dont bother with ichi at all. And if ***truly hits the fan....Cure5.

But that brings me to a question, Topic being "making hexa strike better." Who here has used realmrazer (this is all outside abyssea btw, if i were inside i'll just use mnk). I hit upwards to 3,000 on low end mobs like colibri and higher stuff thats ~DC-EM i do mostly 2,000-2,200. And im able to push these ws literally every 9 seconds. WHM is quite literally my best outside-aby-DD and i have drg mnk and drk.

I 5/5'd realmrazer for the lols mostly... no kclub though =/


Highest I've pushed Realmrazer. I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy to top.

In most situations, relic is going to pull way ahead. Dagan is nice, but I'd rather toss off a cure5 than sacrifice 3-6k dmg. If I'm short mp, Mysic Boon performs quite nicely most of the time. (Can easily hit 1300-1500 dd'ing inside abyssea, and 500-900 outside, assuming I'm not fighting something VT-IT). Also, the hidden effect on relic (3x normal damage) should outperform aftermath, especially considering the ws itself does zero dmg. Emp club def has it's perks, but I just don't see it surpassing relic in a dd situation :p

As for hexa vs realm, realm actually wins a lot of the time. Hexa will win inside aby, but my highest numbers outside so far have all been realmrazers. This topic was made WAY before merit ws were released. :p

Item sets:

Im currently working on getting a kc but am working on Occ.Atk2-4 club. I was wondering if Dmg+10% club is any good aswell or a brief list of good offhand weapons. Thank You

Pretty much the only really good off hand clubs to work on are
-Kraken Club
-Str/Attack Magian Club
-DA Club

Kraken Club would pretty much just decimate OA2-4 in terms of TP gain. DA club can be a high damage off hand that provides a small boost to your TP, but at the cost a rather high delay tag, which is why most people ignore this one. STR/Attack because WHMs just flat out lack Attack in every regard.

I assume when you say DMG+10% club you mean WS DMG+10% and I feel the STR/Attack would probably give you more bang for your buck because of the general offensive boost the STR/Attack club gives.


Given most true DD classes, from what I understand, have issues capping Attack on high tier VW, I feel the STR/Attack club will provide you more of a benefit over Empyrean off hand. However, that also begs the question, how often will a WHM be DD'ing in VW too? xD I've only done a limited amount of VW and there has only been one occasion in that limited time where I could truly think I could've gotten away with DDing something.

i like melee whm because it just so much fun

hey lucky. Kind of what Ghishlain said, the 10% WS club probably shouldn't be your top choice in making compared with the DA or the STR/Attack one. Unfortunately for me, I had started the 10% WS club a looong time ago and I can't leave trials open/unfinished so I took mine up to Makhila +2. Needless to say, I don't find myself using it as much these days. I have used it on some Ironclads and have seen some very nice numbers :D But its one of those things that can be last on your list of clubs to make.

^_^

ah ic thx guess ill finish Occ2-4times and hope i get KC soon if not ill just have to spend my half of the reward at the end of the relic towards KC

Don't quote me on this, but from my understanding the Oa2-4 magians are crap, and you might be better off making an OaT or DA until you get Kclub, or just sticking with fire magian.

I've dd'd in a few VW groups because I have the luxury of making (my friend make) groups, so I can mostly go as whatever I want to :p Kinda waiting of a few other pieces of gear to finish up my sets before I go DD again.

I honestly have no clue how ws dmg magian fares. Not something I used or talked about a lot.

does Occ.atk.Twice club proc often?

i think so i have one its pretty nice tbh but base dmg is poop. i have 60 montionts til im complete i cant find a decent price for a kc though which would be the ideal offhand

Hiya Camaroz i think ive seen you around thx for the info guess its back to camping nms