Old FFXI Vs New FFXI

On the fact to say ALL content was easy.

When Sea was open, how many ppl could go in (same with sky)? How many Ls could kill JOL or jailer?
I agree after 1-2 years its become easy ( gear updgrade and better strategy), but we can say abyssea is easier because after 1-2 day ANY ppl (the full aurore to the full af3+2) can kill any nm, that the difference.

First year of sky and sea, Kill jol or kirin was a accomplishement (during 1-2 year), its not the case with abyssea nm.

So im agree now old and abyssea are easy, just before abyssea = easy too, but not at the release of content, that the difference.

110 craft cap http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/94286-Amazing-Crafts-V-Zouri-accidently-the-whole-crafting-forum/page28

CoP aggro was hard? Minus Tauri/sea, Sneak/Invis. That was difficult.

If you're a hardcore gamer looking for a serious challenge, you've never been playing the right game. FFXI was always a battle of patience, not of skill. That's not to say it isn't skilful (a lot of people say there is no skill involved but these are the same people (myself included) who spend a lot of time in the game, talking about the game, trying out different approaches etc so to a lot of people it is all natural, but I wouldn't say there is no skill involved. There is a clear distinction between good and bad players, and I am not talking merely gear or experience). However, if you are looking to push yourselves to your extreme limits, you're best off trying to solo things (which is still difficult in Abyssea depending on mob).

Abyssea is more accessible - I doubt your average group of idiots can beat Apademak and I've seen plenty of free Orthrus wandering around. Sure people can beat Visions/Scars stuff, but just like Sea/Sky that is now lower level content.

Gil will always have value until you have everything. Some items are decreasing, sure - but with gil you can buy Empyrean drops/pops, AF3+1/2 items, people to help you with stuff, mercenary harder Abyssea drops, etc etc.

Rani was a bloody accomplishment, god that NM sucks (doing it without brew). Can't say Rani's easy >.>, talking of an average LS gear wise.

CoP aggro was hard? Minus Tauri/sea, Sneak/Invis. That was difficult. no, sneak invis was easy, but making sure everyone else has the capacity to do so is another thing

Abyssea is more accessible - I doubt your average group of idiots can beat Apademak and I've seen plenty of free Orthrus wandering around. Sure people can beat Visions/Scars stuff, but just like Sea/Sky that is now lower level content.
right ,but now if you want to ,you can just brew things


i solo tanked 2-3 on nin/dnc and also soloed minotaur nin/war and was a 75 rdm who took pride in soloing things chary/zip/despot even random nms just for the hell of it ^^ and even soloed ODS as rdm i did much much more but these are just a few i was a rdm/nin and a leader i would lead parties through all kinds of things, i like either soloing harder creatures or being the leader of a bunch of ppl. I would try to solo alot of stuff and i didnt win all the time, but after a try or two i would get in the swing and pull it all together. ^^

when heroes came out I was still doing the linkshell thing. that linkshell, while having its share of derpyness, was pretty good. one of the first ranis popped, it took the shell's alliance of ~14 people about 2+ hours or so to kill rani sans brew... it was pretty facepalm, but that's how I got my hecate's! lol

I don't think a smallish group of average-geared players could kill her comfortably without a brew, even now.

Did a 6man Rani shortly after Heroes came out. Very painful.


Silent Oils/Prism Powders. If you mean that people may be too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to have these etc, then this is the main problem with FFXI's "difficulty" in the past: relying on a group of people being non-HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE rather than the challenges being that difficult.

Without taking hours, probably not.
The time we won it took us about 2 hours, deaggroing got messed up and it regened to full, I had to claim and hold it on DNC because it was close to depopping and people were gonna give up, then complained because I was like GET YOUR *** DOWN HERE I CAN'T HOLD THIS, D:

Was quite funny when it stole my fan dance and everyone thought the deaggro failed though, :{

I'm not being funny, but Slayor, you're the kind of person who would say Wow is easy and XI is hard.

All MMO's are easy bro.

LOL all of this branched off of my post where i merely stated i loved hanging out with my friends and all of our experiences. Anyway i gave my two cents and im done ^^ as i said im still playing this game and i actually enjoy this game and abysea. If you would like to insult/flame/troll plz continue in private messages ^^

The larger the fight the more opportunities for intricacy. It requires a higher level of collective skill when you impose the need for organization/coordination.

Take Bahamut v.2 without burning it. You needed a tank and support for Bahamut, a tank for Wyrm pops, add control for Vrtra and Ouryu's adds, all while maintaining DPS on Bahamut.

The important part is that it doesn't just require people, but people who can hold their weight. In a fight like this, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. This is important because it prevents LS (like Empire apparently) from just taking anyone and everyone and zombing the ***out of it.


AV? PW?

There is something to be said about having a goal which requires true talent to accomplish.


I rebutted this point quite thoroughly and you have yet to address what I said. I'll restate the most important points, but you shouldn't assume this premise when it's been challenged.


Taking MP management out of the equation is a major fundamental change that affects the challenge rating. You no longer need multiple healers nor do you need multiple support jobs buffing their MP.

The terminal result is people no longer have to be nearly as self sufficient and makes it such that a lot of groups that would fall prey to heavy AOE damage can just throw meele at something and burn it's HP down. Previously they wouldn't have been able to keep up the MP drain

Cruor buffs and Atma make it effectively impossible for a "tank" to get one-shotted or even near one-shotted. That reduces the need for your healers to have quick reaction times or for your "tanks" to have any sort of skill juggling shadows -- if you even still use /NIN. It also reduces the need to have good gear. I see people in Perle and Aurore burning Sobek, so a full pink Empyrean will come eventually. Which is even more dumbfounding given how easy it is to have "elite" gear now.

The net result is that healers can suck more, you require less healers, you've removed the role of one the harder positions to play well (true tanks). The net result is not only requiring less people, but requiring less skill. And as I said above, requiring less people necessitates less skill because it takes away the organizational and coordination aspect of a fight.

And yes, reducing the need for support is a bad thing imo. It DOES suck and that's why players need to share the burden and to gain perspective. HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE melees who could NEVER have succeeded before cuz HNM shells wouldn't take their meele onry *** are now rolling around with Empyreans because Atma/Cruor compensates for their poor eq. I feel sorry for you that you had to support retards, but that's the very reason my shell had strict mage job requirements to get in. You don't have a support = you aren't contributing equally = you don't deserve to be here.

Moreover lowmanning has become the norm rather something that is only doable by highly skilled and equipped groups. You used to need an Aegis PLD and a GHorn BRD to be able to be self-sustaining with a small group on something challenging. It's not even a challenging lowman either, it's pure tank-n-spank -- throw meeles at ***and watch its HP bar go down.


You should answer rebuttals before re-asserting disputed claims.

There are lots of reasons beyond "epeen" why Abyssea is bad, moreover I argued that "epeen" is a red herring argument anyway.


Brew.

How many people would have access to Shinryu LEGITIMATELY if they had not leeched a Rani win from a competent LS or gotten a brewer from a competent LS? After that it was just trickle down effect to the point complete morons who have no business with the Rani title have Twilight gear.


I explained quite well why things were definitely harder before Abyssea.

Was it hard in an absolute sense? Depends where you want to place the absolute standard of hard determines. But I'd argue if you placed it relative to the average FFXI player pre-Abyssea was challenging and Abyssea only moderately so. I've qualified this argument previously in the thread.

I have also identified two reason why lowman inherently makes an encounter easier

1 - Less intricacy. Means it takes less organizational and coordination required of the group.

2 - Lowman is supposed to be challenging because you condense the roles of multiple people onto one person, so that person has to be correspondingly better to manage the burden. That's not what happens in Abyssea. In the "tank-n-spank" format that Abyssea fights usually take, lowman just means more time because of less damage.

Seriously Gred, I did not even read this last novel of yours, but I really really really really recommend you shut the *** up. Leave your accomplishment and earning it ***at the door, or better yet take that whole *** philosophy into the real world and make something of yourself. You are wasting your energy claiming that meritocracy has it's place in a god damn video game.

tldr? here you go: GRED STFU STFU STFU STFU STFU.

ehh game isn't the same and never will be..

I'd give SE a chance to create some semblance of an endgame/challenging content before canceling you subscribtion tho

no point complaining about lack of challenges when nothing in the game is currently endgame...

wait for lvl 99

get your AF/empyrean done until then

/thread

If all your AF / empyrean is done.. you can come chocobo racing or pankration with me :O

my pankemon is the best >:U

You think I give a ***about what a shortbus peon like you thinks? Retards like you are the very reason I hate how Abyssea crutches people up.

Ooh the IRL card. This may be shocking but just because someone's better than you at video games and likes a challenge does not mean they are a neckbeard no lifer.

How about you shut up?

^

yikes O,o
all from my lil ol IMO thread xD
people hold fierce to they're preferences!

been playing since '03

imo if you u like old FF your an idiot and a masochist


long live the new dev team /praise

Well I am slightly masochist...




Slightly.

I wish this Dev team was in from the start, FFXI is finally listening to its players

New FFXI = God Mode ON!!!!!! ENJOY YOUR NEW POWER XD

Being a long time player (been around since 2004 off and on) I've seen alot of changes in this game, some for the good and some for the bad (level sync was the first step in killing this game). For the most part, I miss being able to put my flag up on drk at the mid levels and getting a quick party invite to gustav tunnel or quicksand caves. Hell, half the fun was trying to get to these camps because most people didn't have outpost warps or all the teleports. There were so many people playing that they had to expand the servers. As time went on, more and more people got fed up with the difficulty of this game and the time and skill required. I think that was in part due to the introduction of ToAU and that you had to be a Sam Drg Rdm Brd Nin or Pld in order to get a party. Blms were forced on their own to manaburn and never learn how to Magic Burst and tp burns prevented people from learning how to create skill chains. I'm sorry to see the lack of skill in the new players and that seeing someone with a Maat's cap just makes me laugh now. I admit that I'm just a casual player, with no real time to camp HNMs and such so the invention of abyssea has pumped new life into this game for me. It does get boring doing abyssea everyday but the fact that I can trio everything and not have to deal with the political *** of a full linkshell is rewarding all in itself. I may get flamed for some of my comments and some of you might agree with me. It's all good either way.

I like old only do to friends that I had. Now when all the new stuff came out they dropped like flies. If my friends were still playing idc old or new. I had fun then.

Rofl SMN Burn used to mean going to King Ranperes Tomb with 5 SMN and a NIN puller. Then titan would own those skeles with mountain buster. Those were good times.

The biggest problem with abyssea today is there is NO global economy. In other words, the AH is dead. They need more gear that relies on items that are not rare/ex. The most movement you see on AH now is crating materials and NM pop items. We need weapons / armor to move on the AH again (among other things).

Bring back skillchains and magic bursts. In fact - you should make an NM proc that requires a given skillchain to be performed, and another that requires a given magic burst.

AH = Always hungry! i use gil for food. Thats all the Ah is good for.

How did the furniture go from giving +1 to +5? There were only 3 new items added per craft no?

+2 from gear +3 from furniture lol fat lot of good it does for bonecraft though

I love you for writing this. :D truer words have never been written.

The only things I agree with from that post is that Primeval Brew should not have existed, and a majority of players should not have access to Shinryu via trickle down effect. From this, Twilight gear should have remained rare, as well as Rani's ring/earring etc.

For everything else listed, there is too much desire from you for there to be a substantial gap between the gear available to different styles of play. Quality players will always have the ability to obtain quality gear in a safe amount of time, but it should also be available to casuals through extensive commitment and continued involvement. There is absolutely no need for the means to obtaining certain sets of gear be impossible to casuals (barring outright buying the rights to lot them without participation in the actual event).

Casuals running around in Empyrean weapons should be very obvious. They are consequences of the level cap raising while the levels of the NM's involved in their production remained static. Think hard for a moment, how many of these retard melees are in possession of a 90 weapon? While I am sure there are some, the majority will wait for the level to correct and provide ease to obtain it. For those who do have a currently completed weapon, it's pretty much safe to assume it was brewed.

The only solution to empyreans at this point is to implement a challenge that cannot be outleveled to obtain the 95/99 weapons, and perhaps rename them to reflect the actual intensity of obtaining the weapon.

It is imperative that lowman content exists, and continues to, but at the same time it is also important that linkshell content is created. Most people enjoy the new ff over the days of afking in Whitegate, but it is hard to say that the drama that came from linkshells is not missed. This thread died for a reason, a conclusion is simple there needs to be content satiable to both styles of play.

You fail. "Old" FFXI loot vs. effort ratio was absurdly biased towards 24/7 addict players who have no life or social skills. While there's a few of these folks out there, it's not an adequate number to maintain the health/profitability of the game.

That said, yes, it's easy to make the case that FFXI has now swung too far from the "too hardcore" to the "too casual".
The game could definitely stand to have some new content added that doesn't feature Atma buffs or Primeval Brews. And those updates are likely on the way.

In the meantime, if you personally need more challenge, then simply don't use Atma or Brews. It's really as simple as that.

However, I assume that most people who complain about the "difficulty" level of "new" FFXI don't actually really care about challenge. It's FAR more likely that those pining for "old" FFXI are simply the type that are (for some whacked psychological reason) bent when they see a "gimp" (less experienced, hasn't earned "stature", etc.) player possessing the same piece of weaponry or armor as they have.

Seriously, it's a bunch of pixels. Is it an accomplishment? Sure, in some ways. But ultimately, it's not gonna get you a job, a wife, a girlfriend, a ***, money (unless you RMT your account), friends, or anything else of any real value. So, if someone else has the same equipment as you do, BFD! It didn't make you all that unique in the first place. And if seeing a "gimp" player with "your" gear is really that offensive, then you need to check yourself.

If FFXI players spent half the time on their own skills as they do checking and critiquing other people's equipment (90% of the time in order to find a way to label it "gimp"), then we'd all be a LOT better players.