Old FFXI Vs New FFXI

Really dont see how the old way was more of a challenge or more rewarding. Get a chance at an NM that drops the item you want once every 1-2 weeks and have a low drop rate on it?

And then on to of that, having to deal with 18+ other people that want the same item? And unable to be doing it when you want?

Yeah, was SOOOO much better.

The same people who bragged about how awesome their bots were etc.

It was never the case that ONLY ELITE PLAYERS GOT THE BEST GEAR, the case was those who exploit the most people/bot the most/suck off the leader most got the best gear.

Here's the funny thing about elitist egos and and them lording gear over you and such. If you play this game for fun, why is your fun connected to your ability to have gear that rivals the best? If you truly do feel this is just a game then it shouldn't matter that some elitists have better gear than you.

If others having gear you can't get bothers you, then you care about gear. The only way you can actually be insulted by egos that lord superiority of gear over you is if you actually believe what they say (and this is ridiculous in and of itself because I don't remember the last time any "elitist" went around lording his Adaberk over random people he didn't know; most run-ins with "egos" are when people get butthurt and can't take the criticism when they apply to an HNMLS that says they aren't good enough).

Despite everything Abyssea lovers want to say about it being "just a game" -- they actually care about gear and want good gear. Instead of just playing the game their way, they can't accept other people have better gear than them. So they bitched (e.g. fanfest, every single *** year, with people complaining about Kings). So really the dividing line isn't caring too much about gear, it's about having the skills to get it or resorting to bitching to SE for a hand-out.

I have never once said that everyone has to strive for the best. My statements are conditional. "IF you want King gear, THEN do kings."

This argument boils down to "It's better for us to have just a basic set of gear everyone can attain so people don't feel bad for being unable to get the best gear" vs. "There should be a wide spectrum of rewards which players have the freedom to choose how high to aim and will be tested accordingly"

I see no reason for the first. It's basically analogous to a little league were everyone gets the trophy because you don't want there to be losers. If the elitism stings, it's only because they want the gear. If they want it, well obviously gear isn't just some afterthought to having fun then. IMO that means go get it, you aren't entitled to anything.



1. There was no gameshark potion, people who couldn't handle a mob lost it. That is preferable to letting someone grind cruor and get a potion that enables them to kill stuff far beyond their level.

2. I saw people wipe to Fafnir as recently as 2 months before the 80 cap. Shells that could zerg Bahamut v2 and Kirin were fully capable of taking an hr plus for Fafnir. You vastly underestimate fail. Moreover Ixion, Khimaira, Cerberus, Lambton Worm, and Tiamat were all a step above Ground Kings.

3. Meritocracy is good. People do not have a right to experience all content merely because they play, much less does everyone have a right to the best gear or even good gear. Everyone should get to play how they want, but that doesn't mean they are entitled to rewards from content they cannot or will not do nor should the game be changed to remove such content because the majority cannot/will not do it.

4. Zero-sum competition between the player base is good. It drives the player base to work harder to top each other, it increases the fun of the game, it increases the value of accomplishments. The claim system rewards he who brings the most people willing to actually pay attention. That sounds pretty fair imo.

5. Item rarity is good. Basic economics is supply and demand. In this game take demand as a function of the item's stats. An item is only worthwhile such that it is both good and rare.

6. Difficult and rare rewards are less exploitative than accessible rewards for everyone. A skinner box that is extremely painful but eventually survivable is rationally superior to a skinner box where you get rewards easily but they are constantly replaced and you are trapped forever. Think of it in terms of treadmills with carrots at the finish line. Old XI is a slow treadmill lined with broken glass; you will eventually get the carrot as long as you push through, but it is incredibly difficult. New XI is an anti-gravity treadmill which allows you to reach the carrot but as soon as you do it gets replaced with a better carrot and the treadmill restarts.

I send lots of feedback to SE to stop making these updates but I know I'll never get anything I asked. Making Abyssea was one thing. I understand that people want more from FFXI, but PLEASE SE DON'T MAKE SKILLUPS EASIER!!! Especially when everyone's complaining that they can't skillup on EP or DC, which everyone kills nowadays. The only reason why people give a damn about skill ups now is because only NOW do they want to have skills in other combat weapons to be able to proc weaknesses.

I take my time leveling up, I cap as many or all my skills as possible, regardless of whether or not people call them "useless" (i.e. hand-to-hand, archery, and club on THF). It's fun in my opinion. It was difficult, and time consuming, but every +0.1 gained felt great.

But now I'm seeing this in the official website:

Q: The recent update supposedly made it easier to increase skills, but I'm not noticing much of a difference. What exactly has changed?

A: The minimum enemy rating for raising skills to their caps has been lowered from "even match" to "decent challenge," providing more frequent opportunities for skill increase and greater values accompanying each increase. However, as the calculations are adjusted based upon your current skill level and your target's strength, the difference will be more noticeable at lower skill levels. We intend to monitor game balance with the new settings for the time being, but will consider future adjustments for skills such as parry and guard that are triggered less frequently.


SE makes it easier to skill up and people still complain. SE, please, PLEASE don't make parrying and guarding skill ups easier to get. I work for them day in and out and I want it to stay that way.

If winning was easy, it wouldn't be fun.

WHAT HAPPENED TO FFXI WHEN YOU NEEDED PARTIES TO LEVEL UP ON INCREDIBLY TOUGH MONSTERS?!
I really want to tell SE to stop making these updates that are making the game less challenging, especially this latest one allowing players to skillup on DC. Train on EM and above instead of continuously grinding on EP and DC. Why remove the day restriction on FoV? It takes nearly the whole Vana'day to take down a regiment of T+ mobs anyway. People train on that right? oh .. wait.. no.. they don't.

If I could skillup on COR/NIN (on PARRYING) against T+, then so can anyone else on just about any other job. SE PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PARRYING AND GUARDING EASIER TO GET!!! YOU'RE MAKING THIS GAME TOO EASY. I remember when people cherished every single level they got from waiting around for parties. Now everyone and their mothers has fifteen level 90 jobs and care little to nothing about them. Half of them don't even know how to play their job. A DRG90 shouldn't ask his pt how to proc healing breath; EVER!

Then again this is just my opinion. SE will not listen to me. Go ahead and rate this message down or whatever. I shouldn't say how people should play. I just wish SE would stop making updates that would make me want to quit even more.

I wish people would give a damn about ToAU again.

parrying/guard are ***even when capped respectively, so them making it easier to upgrade ***to ***isn't that bad of all things

i don't mind the new ffxi as a whole so much, but, i really do hope they make a speedy recovery toward the rest of the game that's officially became obsoleted in its' entirety, bar a handful of items (which even then, the fights themselves at this level are pathetic)

as it stands currently, you could literally take away every single zone bar port jeuno and the abyssea areas, and everything would still manage to hold together just fine basically

i suppose the same could be said during the aht urhgan era, where zones such as batallia downs were completely deserted, but imo it feels even more barren as it stands now, compared to before

I don't see what was so good about old FFXI as opposed to current FFXI.

let's see here..

Grinding on Birds on 4 static jobs to obtain merits so you could spend on your other jobs that you use at events.

Doing a boring event that you see no gain from for 3 hours and at the time some shell holder held all gil / currency for some weapon that was epic fail.

Having the same static gear as everyone else with minimal variety in terms of setups for your jobs.

oh yeah, old FFXI was great, I'm sure you could arguable say some of the same things about current FFXI, but honestly..

who enjoyed running around spamming a ***load of pictures to gain an invisible currency to buy pop items all to get up to a T4 NM that wont drop what you want.

who enjoyed doing events that you needed a lot of bodies for to successfully obtain one persons final reward that everyone else doesn't benefit from.

I'm not saying it was bad, but I'm glad I no longer have to see Paladins being the only tank left in the game cause square likes to *** everyone else over.

I'm glad I don't have to see people using the same static gear that everyone just about had at the time, really I'm glad the changes in the game, sure there are people that all look the same but you now have more variety to gain your X-hit and cap haste with different gear sets.

I know I certainly didn't enjoy logging in, doing my daily ISNM75, doing my daily salvage run, my once every 3 day dynamis / limbus, my every other day sea farms, my alternating day ZNM / Sky/ Fomor NM.

It was more boring back then then it is now, the people who complain about ***being boring currently are the people you see with 5 empyrean weapons, all +2 on their job and have already thought about / if not have quit because its to easy.

well the people who say ***are boring are the people that burn through content so fast that they are left with nothing but that, this is why I choose the ways to low man everything, there is the option to just sit and burn through content but I choose my own path with my group and enjoy ***as it comes.

A lot of what you say is true nekonarf

but this part confuses me


A lot of people still low man and burn through the game pretty fast.

They got a lot of things right with abyssea.. but they also got some things wrong.

It would be nice if they would release some sort of relevant endgame content that requires more than a party of well coordinated players to win.

Nothing in the current game i'd really consider endgame.

I really enjoyed challenges like that before the update.

There just doesn't seem to be any super difficult challenges left in the game .. well fighting wise.. probably still hard to get 10k moat carp w/o buying them all etc but actual fights nothing sticks out.

2 more level cap raises to come tho.. so i'm sure they got some sort of new endgame content in store.


Sure the game is more casual friendly and thats a good thing, but an honest to goodness challenge would be nice.


I guess my point is.. just because a casual player might not be able to do certain content doesn't make it bad.. there should be a variety of gameplay for all types of players.

This was fun.. I got a good share of Orc AoE-1shot in my newbie days

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8410673994757007539#

lol @ the Jungle part.

another classic wich I was guilty was PLing a pt and put icepikes on to kill their exp lol..

Pankration FUN WOOOOO!!!!
lvl 50 Kulshedra, Mimic, Bomb, and Golem.
Lots of fun. SE make the Abyssean mobs Pankrationable please!

/standing in The Colosseum. Forever alone.

I'd like to see some solo BC battles (like matt fight or mini-fork avatar fights) that would give decent gear drops or unlock job specific abilities. These types of fights have always been my favorite events because of the sense of personal accomplishment. Old ffxi had few, and new ffxi has nothing like this to my knowledge.

:(

daaannnccee monkey dance!!!

Nothing like the old school, lets see what 99 brings. Hopefully they make it challenging..cause the way the game is right now is terrible lol.

^ What he said. Nothing in the new content is truly rare anymore. Everyone can achieve anything. The sense of accomplishment is what we all play for. It never ceases to amaze me that everyone who loves the new content bashes land kings. Camping land kings for 2 years was some of the most fun I've ever had in this game. The drama always made it interesting and the competition was fierce. The gear wasn't even THAT good other than dring. The rarity is what made it special, not the stats.

The best part about old FFXI was content VARIETY. I could grab friends and go do salvage or nyzul isle when nothing was going on. The linkshell had multiple different events including sky, sea, limbus. Each content had it's own unique qualities. New FFXI is abyssea or go home. Abyssea has been a good change of pace, but what FFXI needs is variety.

OLD FFXI WAS NOT CHALLENGING

LSs used a lot of people because they had a lot of people, not because they needed a lot of people. Was it impossible to kill Kirin/kings/99% of mobs in the game back at 75 with 6 or less? *** no. It simply wasn't done because every LS had so many people and no real way to divide them.

People need to distinguish between mobs needing people (a very small minority even in old XI, AV/PW/DL ... any others?) and simply there being more people around.

Can argue Dynamis: Dynamis was doable by much less, only really DL was hard with a low number. Can argue Einherjar: Admittedly ~12 was a good number, could go lower.

Kings != skill. Kings is a number and bot game.


While I agree Brew is questionable, how many HNM wipes actually happened? Very few. Rage timers were WAY too high - any crappy shell could essentially zombie it to death if need be.


This still exists - not everyone will have an Empyrean weapon, AF3+2 full sets etc etc. Except now, instead of having best gear depending on being in a big shell and botting your *** off, it is based ENTIRELY on individual effort.


He who brings bodies and bots.


Empyreans and stuff aren't as rare as ridiculous stupid things like D.Ring. but they are still rare by definition that a high % of people do not have them.

i didnt read all the way thru this at all but i would like to comment i started playing this game i wanna say about a year or so b4 wings of the goddess came out. and one thing that i really miss from pre abyssea times is being able to take bst out and charm stuff to kill. and having the risk of death and what not. lol lvling bst was the most fun i had lvling any of my jobs. and a new set of zones with charmable mobs for some good old fashion exp grind would just make me happy as all get out lol.

My observation but it may not count for much as I have been in and out of game in the 4+ years that my bro and I have been in FFXI but the part system fell apart a long time ago at least years when ppl saw it was wiser to static or duo, SE eventually implemented FOV for those who didnt want to static or partner up with ls mates etc. I personally consider the fast levels and perks that Abyssea and newer additions to 11 a "cherry on top" of all we do after years/achievements made as most new comers have no idea what most players endured (lol) to get to be high level. The huge advantage anyone who puts forth the effort ing can now get Twilight gear/ Emperean gear etc..and if all have noticed it isnt a good time to be a gilseller as nearly everything is rare/ex so they cant turn a quick buck ing or out for that matter, savor the silence, for now and is the game now too easy? I dont think so but also never underestimate SE as yes there are some changes but I do think all will unfold in the "magunus opus" of FFX1 and neglect the areas of Besieged/Sky/Campaign if u want to but I do think these will be returning with new twists of their own..only my assumption..and if not theres always WoW etc.

Being a leader of Empire on Ramuh, I can tell that that there is only 2 things in the game we didn't kill on a regular basis, AV & PW.

There was nothing that was a struggle for us to kill. With over 60+ members on 24/7/365 we camped multiple HNMs at the same time. There is a pic on our website showing us fighting both DI & Sandworm at the same time (yes, we kill them w/o wiping funny ppl).

We would full clear all city namis and play hide & seek afterwards. Dynamis Lord was a joke to kill. Took albeit 30 seconds (maybe).

The shell made 12 or more relics for people (possibly more I forgot). And we would help anyone outside the shell that needed an Attestation for their relic.

So before you go off pretending you have a clue about me, do yourself a favor and do some research. Just because I don't post my gear/LS on FFXIAH doesn't mean I am a noob.

Let me know if you ever need help kill anything in the game. I'll send you a strategy for getting it done.

I wouldnt exactly brag about having 60+ people in your LS.

You need strategy to kill stuff with 60+? O_o

How can they be and old and new? is the same game

When Kings/Wyrms/Kirin/Limbus/Dynamis were first released there was no way that ***was doable with 6.

Low-manning became possible because of innovations in FFXI tactics (tanking with PLD/NIN and NIN/DRK and eventually RDM/NIN), changes in game mechanics (2H forumlas, Hasso), and increases in player capabilities (merits and gear).

That being said, yes the top shells could do Fafhogg, KB, Aspid, Tiamat, Ixion, and Lambton with 6-10. Was it hard to top level shells? No. Could a group of average players accomplish that? No.

The was a minimum requirement of skill to kill HNMs that was higher than the skill requirement to kill most things in Abyssea relative to at the time of content release.

And I'd probably go so far to say old content was harder relative to even right before level cap -- MNK+WHM could not duo a majority of old XI content. Compare the amount of people who succeeded in End Game at the Kings level vs. Abyssea. A group of average players accomplish far more in Abyssea because the open format of the content makes it easier for leeches to hop onto a group (rather than earn membership in a HNMLS and not get kicked out for being worthless) and because the content is relatively easier with all the crutches (atma/cruor buffs/gameshark brew)


Anytime I saw a shell that wasn't a regular camping HNMLS, 80% of the time it ended in a wipe. My first End Game shell that was capable of burning Kirin and Bahamut v.2 took a whole hour on our first Fafnir, and flailed two other Fafnirs. You severely underestimate the average shell's skill level as compared to the HNMLS


Per arguments above, I believe the skill level required to King gear was much higher than the skill leveled required to get Abyssea gear. Again, a MNK and WHM couldn't accomplish everything in old FFXI, even if you took claiming out of the equation.

I don't think botting is a relevant argument at all. SE *** up horribly policing it, but the system itself was sound.

Think about it like tests in school. Kids cheat. But holy ***that doesn't mean we get rid of tests. Why? Cause there are things testing accomplishes that are worth preserving. So We just proctor kids better. It's the fault of the teacher if he's dumb and leaves the room and the kids cheat. Likewise if people botted, that's a flaw of SE's policing/enforcement, not of the system.


If a larger group brings more people, isn't that more comparative effort that should get rewarded with a proportionally higher claim rate?


Compare number of Empyrean owners after half a year vs. relic owners after multiple years, then scale this rate of Empyrean acquisition to what it would be after 7 years. Empyreans are way faster, way easier to get. People who would never even get "common" end game items like Hecatomb Cap can easily get Empyreans with dual boxing or just having a single friend help them.

Compare Ababerk ownership to +2 body ownership you'll probably find something pretty similar. I'm willing to bet that already right now there is a far higher % of WAR/DRK who have their AF3+2 bodies than those who had Adaberk.


You didn't ever actually explain anything about why old XI sucked you just went on your soapbox rant about neckbeard no-lifers and how new XI takes away from people who weren't hot ***to start with and such.

So I just made a logical assumptions based off your crying that your enjoyment in new XI is entirely motivated by the shifts in player hierarchy.


Unfortunately I can't take you up on that offer as the only strategy we could possibly have used was a pre-Alexander AV

But it's interesting that for someone so up in arms about giving the middle finger to the elite, you sure sound like you think you're part of that group.

Miss HNM times :( Was fun to be afk for 30 minutes then pay attnetion for a few seconds. Amazing feeling when you got claim! Never got tired of it in about 1 1/2 years. Getting items felt so much more rewarding than it does now. Not even happy anymore when something drops. Back then it used to be like OMFGRIDILLOMFG. Everyone spamming about it! Good times

I don't see the point of comparing average players to top shells when it comes to Kings, because the average player wouldn't have the claim rate to refine their skills and strategies against the mobs unless they're using the same 3rd party tools the "Top shells" are using. It isn't as simple as you make it seem.

I started this game along time ago, well long for me I honestly cant remember how long its been. I loved the old XI spending hours with friends doing things that almost never had any benefit for me. It was time I spent talking to friends, most who don't play anymore.

And I really enjoy being able to low man things with friends, and find things to do in short spans of time when i don't have hours to spend.

Really the only complaint i have with the new XI over the old is, For me, it is hard to farm things of worth to me. In the past there were a large number of things to farm or to get drops off of for gil.

empire was a gigantic shell everyone made fun of, and pretending that getting things done had nothing to do with having a billion people is laughable.

But the whole argument is that "Kings aren't hard" so how can they be hard enough such that refinement of skill/strategy is necessary to do them successfully?

Also, a shitty claim rate post-"claim delay" patch means that if you have a big group and you're not claiming, it's cuz your retards are circle jerking instead of button mashing. Again it's not something I'd be surprised to find in a non-Kings shell. I had to kick people for doing stupid ***like crafting during Windows before I gave up and went to an established HNMLS shell.

The quality of player *is* different. And it's not just the polish from experience.


So was this like a giant *** NASA immigrant shell that recruited any and all scrubs that could get them another person on their claim order? Would make all the gear-butthurt understandable.

Honestly, Kings were hard pre-merit. I guess if thats the case, you would have been wanting FFXI to go back to the way it was 4 years ago or so. Long time to be playing to pine for that old system.

The use of /nin actually made everything a lot easier way before abyssea. being able to blink a large majority of TP moves etc made the game easier.

Your augment still holds true today. I've seen a lot of people still wipe to T2-T3 NMs in abyssea.

I mean, you cant honestly say everyone that owned a relic or ran around with an e-body was a grade A skilled player.

No of course not. There were tons of wasted E-Bodies/Ridills/Dramaticas and whatnot. Hell I saw the gilsellers on Asura get a D-Ring once (banned a week later).

It's a matter of proportion though. HNMLS were much less likely to keep a useless retard around because they might have to rely on a person longterm and compete with him for gear. Members tend to be hostile to the idea that they will lose gear to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Comparatively the openness of Abyssea content makes it easier to get ***you want through shout groups. Worst cast scenario you can pay to leech a Shinryu win and get cheap brews, and then shout-brew anything you want in the game. For example I've seen a player who begged us for a handouts on Ace's Helm (but didn't think he should have to pay) and who had shitty really shitty gear pre-Abyssea rolling around with Kannagi and full +2 and Epona's Ring.