Ravager +2 Set Testing

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Ravager +2 Set Testing
 Caitsith.Ejin
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By Caitsith.Ejin 2011-01-15 03:39:31
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I realize there is another topic similar to this topic, but there was a lot of info so i thought it'd be easier to make a new topic.

A lot of people seem to be curious as to what the proc rate of the set is. I've heard anything from 1% to 10%. So, i decided to go out and do some basic testing on the proc rate of 4 of 5 of the set.

Reasons i tested 4/5 only:

*As of now it's impossible to use 5/5 w/o sacrificing either haste or 5 hit build or both, thus i feel at this time it's not worth testing 5/5.

*I don't have +2 hands so i can't test 5/5 anyways!


Few things you should know about the Augments "Double Attack" if you didn't already:

*Has a chance to deal double damage; very similar to Empyrean ODD.

*When it procs, it affects both hits of the double attack:


*Even if the second hit of the double attack does not activate, due to the mob dying, ODD can still occur:


*Even if the first or second hit of a double attack misses, ODD can still occur:


*ODD from set stacks with ODD from Empyrean aftermath:



Now for the actual testing on the proc rate of 4 pieces of Ravager's +2.

Few things that were left constant the duration of the test:

*Total amount of double attack was 32%. pole grip/ravager head +2/ravager gorget/ravager earring/brutal/atheling/ravager legs +2 and the DA job trait.

*Mobs used for test were Crapaudy in Abyssea - La Theine Plateau.

*Crit hit atmas were used to obtain a capped crit hit rate(95%) to easily judge what was an ODD proc, since crits are much easier to distinguish from none crits. Atmas were: RR/GH/DD.

Total number of hits: 1402
Total number of misses: 68
Total number of crits: 1334
Total number of attacks: 1470
Assumed total number of rounds: 1113
Assumed total number of double attacks: 357
Total number of ODD procs observed: 13
Total number of ODD hits landed: 21
ODD proc rate: 3.6%
Actual rate of ODD hits landed in test: 5.9%
Theoretical maximum rate of ODD hits: 7.3%

In summary:

*There were 1470 total attacks recorded and of these attacks 1113 rounds are assumed with a 32% double attack rate.

*357 rounds are assumed double attacks.

*Of these 357 double attack rounds, 13 ODD "procs" were observed.

*26 ODD hits should have occurred, but due to kill-shots and misses, only 21 were observed.

*I would hypothesize that the "proc" rate for 4/5 set bonus would be 3-4%.

*3-4% "proc" rate means double the amount of ODD hits since they're double attacks for a ODD rate of 7-8% on total amount of DA rounds.

*Admittedly, 357 double attacks is a rather low sample size, but i believe it gives us enough of an idea what the ODD rate is.

Things to take away from this:

*Adding the 5th and final piece might grant an extra bonus to the over all rate.

*Ravager set could be lower proc rate than other sets, specifically mnk.

*The most interesting part of this test was ODD procing when the second hit didn't even activate, because the mob had died. Meaning it might be possible to test if ODD from set can proc on WS by doing SAWS on pDIF capped mobs to see if there is a spike in the first hit, because if the same is true as above, ODD should still proc if the second hit from the double attack doesn't activate.
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 Bismarck.Eurekavii
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By Bismarck.Eurekavii 2011-01-15 04:32:41
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Nice work. I use 4/5 AF3+2 and was curious about this.
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 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2011-01-15 05:37:26
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Thanks for the testing. Bit confused by the way you set up your numbers though.

Does 357 DA mean 357x2 total? (714)
And the 13 total procs is 26 swings, of which 21 landed?
 Caitsith.Ejin
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By Caitsith.Ejin 2011-01-15 06:07:21
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Bismarck.Altar said:
Thanks for the testing. Bit confused by the way you set up your numbers though.

Does 357 DA mean 357x2 total? (714)
And the 13 total procs is 26 swings, of which 21 landed?

Total Rounds = 1470 / (1 + .32) = 1113, 1470(total attacks) - 1113(total rounds) = 357(double attacks), 357 / 1113 = 32% DA rate

13 total procs, yes. Theoretically 26 ODD hits should have occurred, but due to kill shots and misses only 21 occurred.

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 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-01-15 06:23:54
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Caitsith.Ejin said:
Bismarck.Altar said:
Thanks for the testing. Bit confused by the way you set up your numbers though.

Does 357 DA mean 357x2 total? (714)
And the 13 total procs is 26 swings, of which 21 landed?

Total Rounds = 1470 / (1 + .32) = 1113, 1470(total attacks) - 1113(total rounds) = 357(double attacks), 357 / 1113 = 32% DA rate

13 total procs, yes. Theoretically 26 ODD hits should have occurred, but due to kill shots and misses only 21 occurred.

Did you use Kparser for this? there is a tab that will show you the actual number of double attacks you had (assuming your double attacks do not bleed into the next attack round, as this screws up the parser). This would give a much better measure, instead of assuming you actually double attacked 32% of the time.
 Caitsith.Ejin
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By Caitsith.Ejin 2011-01-15 06:29:25
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Phoenix.Kirana said:
Did you use Kparser for this? there is a tab that will show you the actual number of double attacks you had (assuming your double attacks do not bleed into the next attack round, as this screws up the parser). This would give a much better measure, instead of assuming you actually double attacked 32% of the time.

Yes, i was initially planning on using this tab, but due to the countering from GH Atma, zanshin, and me still attacking pretty fast(i was using haste spell, hasso and 23% gear haste); I decided the DA rate from parser was too unreliable.
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By Bismarck.Altar 2011-01-15 06:57:27
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Caitsith.Ejin said:
Bismarck.Altar said:
Thanks for the testing. Bit confused by the way you set up your numbers though.

Does 357 DA mean 357x2 total? (714)
And the 13 total procs is 26 swings, of which 21 landed?

Total Rounds = 1470 / (1 + .32) = 1113, 1470(total attacks) - 1113(total rounds) = 357(double attacks), 357 / 1113 = 32% DA rate

13 total procs, yes. Theoretically 26 ODD hits should have occurred, but due to kill shots and misses only 21 occurred.


Ok, I just didn't see the reason for including the 5.9%...
So, seems like with 4 pieces equipped it could possibly be 4% proc rate... maybe 2%-5% proc rate depending on how many pieces you have equipped?

Oh, and very neat that it stacks with aftermath from Ukon
 Lakshmi.Eyrhika
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2011-01-15 10:10:38
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Thanks for the testing, I was curious myself. I use a different 4/5 setup for now, but it is nice to have a number to put to the proc rate.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2011-01-15 11:06:33
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That's insane...
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 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-01-15 11:31:11
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Very nice work, thank you for the info.
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By Grimlockking 2011-02-10 06:21:29
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More great work, Thanks Ejin!
 Phoenix.Pozcat
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By Phoenix.Pozcat 2011-02-10 06:42:26
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I had been wondering, thank you. It's a shame that the proc rate on set effects is so low however and not something similar to the empyrean aftermath ODD effect
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By Alexander.Alistrianna 2011-03-09 17:31:28
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You should really do this testing over and over with varying amounts of Double attack. Would be nice to know if it has its own proc rate that guarantees the attack to DA or if its really a 'proc within a proc".
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-03-09 17:56:39
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It's a proc within a proc I'd surmise, just because a lot of THFs choose to stack TA atmas to increase the OTD possibility, and most of them swear by it.
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By Bahamut.Zoltar 2011-03-09 19:09:22
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Great post, thanks
 Cerberus.Masamunai
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By Cerberus.Masamunai 2011-03-13 07:06:30
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Hello, i just discovered this topic and it happens i made also a 4/5 WAR AF3+2 test. I think would be nice to share my numbers too.

Things that were left constant the duration of the test:

*Total amount of double attack was 33%.
Ravager Lorica +2/Ravager Mufflers +2/Ravager Cuisses +2/Ravager Feet +2, alongwith Ravager Head +1/Pole Grip/Brutal Earring/Atheling Mantle/Anguinus Belt, and the DA job trait.

*Mobs used for test were Colibris in Bhaflau Thickets.
LVL 71, 72 & 73. VIT60 & DEF272, 277 & 282.

*No buffs were used besides Retaliations, Sanction and /DNC Curing Waltzes.

* Did 2 parses: 1 with Retaliations and other without. 1st reason was because i forgot Sanction *** up the exp which is used by KParser to differentiate each mob's lvl. 2nd reason is i discovered in 1st parse KParser completely failed parsing correctly DAs, returning a mere 12% DArate lol(o.O) despite sufficient sample size.
So i ended up parsing DAs myself on Excel from copy-pasting the Raw Data from KParser.

* I can confirm what above tester showed:
- AF3+2 procs on BOTH DA hits always.
- AF3+2 proc'd hits can crit and miss.
- AF3+2 can NOT proc on Retaliations.

* Formula used to calculate statistical error @ 95% confidence is:
Error% = +/- 1,96 * SQRT[ (PA%*(1-PA%))/ TotalSample ]
with PA% : Parsed Average (here the ODD%)
and TotalSample : total DAs for ODD%.

* Parse 1 results :
Total number of hits: 1050
Total number of misses: 57
Total number of crits: 156
Total number of attacks: 1206
Parsed total number of double attacks: 298 (including DAs with 1st hit killshot + DAs with missed hit)
DA rate : 30,88%
Total number of ODD procs observed: 10
ODD proc rate: 3.36%

* Parse 2 results :
Total number of hits: 1075
Total number of misses: 50
Total number of crits: 169
Total number of attacks: 1244
Parsed total number of double attacks: 302
DA rate : 30,44%
Total number of ODD procs observed: 6
ODD proc rate: 1.99%

In summary:
Total number of DAs : 600
Total number of ODD procs observed: 16
ODD proc rate: 2.67% +/- 1,29% = [1,38% ; 3,95%] Confidence Interval

I wouldno't add Eijin's results to mine because he "assumed" his real DArate instead of parsing it himself => Eijin gets overall optimistically slightly skewed results.
Also has to point out this ODD% has been calculated off DA%, so if someone ask you "So how often does AF3+2 WAR set procs overall ?", the real answer would be to recalculate the % using TOTAL #Hits this time, which obviously would yield even much lower %...

Conclusion: AF3+2 set procs arenot worth the trouble, especially when better gears could enhance some slots; BUT this applies only to AF3+2 sets whose procs is based on a random event like double attacks, triple attacks, conserve MP etc... which is itself relatively "low". That means sets like PLD with one single static %, or BLU based only on how often you hit yur spell macros, are "better" then sets like SAM who is based on triple random %(Accu% > Zanshin% > ODD%)...
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 Ramuh.Attribute
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By Ramuh.Attribute 2011-03-13 07:12:16
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I have 5/5 Full AF+2 and the Lv. 85 Ukon. I don't have my parses saved from today but yes STP and Haste is a definite over Full AF+2. Don't get me wrong you average 600+ regular hits and my max Double Criticals were around 1.1-1.2k per swing. With Afmermath on some Criticals landed for 1.5-1.6K. But the spamming for TP and just spamming Ukkos by far wins over the amount of times you critical for over 1k. Not to mention your lucky if the Aftermath last over 15-20 seconds.
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-03-13 07:21:27
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Ramuh.Attribute said:
I have 5/5 Full AF+2 and the Lv. 85 Ukon. I don't have my parses saved from today but yes STP and Haste is a definite over Full AF+2. Don't get me wrong you average 600+ regular hits and my max Double Criticals were around 1.1-1.2k per swing. With Afmermath on some Criticals landed for 1.5-1.6K. But the spamming for TP and just spamming Ukkos by far wins over the amount of times you critical for over 1k. Not to mention your lucky if the Aftermath last over 15-20 seconds.

Empyrean AM lasts 30 Seconds for Level 1 Aftermath, 60 Seconds for Level 2, and 90 Seconds for Level 3.

Suck Less
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 Ramuh.Attribute
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By Ramuh.Attribute 2011-03-13 07:40:20
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Its not like I was timing the aftermath. Ive only had the lv 85 for one day and was just commenting my results for the critical effects of 5/5 AF+2.
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By Cerberus.Masamunai 2011-03-13 10:09:47
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so would it be "safe" to assume AF3+2 procrate like this :
0% with 1 AF3+2 equipped,
1% with 2 AF3+2 equipped,
+1% for each additional AF3+2 equipped (ie 2% with 3 pieces, and 3% with 4 pieces),
+2 % for the last 5th piece.

... for a grand total of 5% procrate on your double attacks ?


Which sound lot less appealing than for example PLD: 5% absorbrate on all hits taken, which happens 95% of the time on most NMs.
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