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DRK Suggestions:we're in ur game balancin ur dudes
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-01-10 16:52:34
Sylph.Kimble said: How would it not fix it really? Honestly, Razed Ruin is just that powerful and even though they added Atma for 2 handers only, it didnt change much.
I've reiterated the point countless times in this thread. If you're trying to solve the "DRK" Issue by making them compete with Warrior and Monk, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Let's say they did give DRK a Crit WS, this Forum would have a "Bawww, DRK needs double attack" post within 20minutes because Warriors are still annihilating them in DPS.
Critical WS or no, it' needs to be taken away from the standard "DD" path, and built upon it's own unique assets. That's going to involve a bit more useful Dark Magic, though that favors longer battles, and not the XP Parties everyone seems to gauge a job's worth on, but you also can't ignore it's DPS capabilities.
It's a tough thing to reach balance with, I don't think DRK is gimp like Puppetmaster was pre-h2h and decent gear updates, it doesn't need a huge overhaul, just a little nudge in the right direction. Additional, useful Dark Magic in conjunction with either a Critical Hit WS or some sustained job ability combat stances (Hasso, Seigan, Inin, Yonin, Counterstance, Footwork, Restraint) would easily put it where it belongs.
Phoenix.Fredjan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2326
By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-01-10 17:26:16
meh, not even worth it.
what about Vere PUP?
Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-01-10 17:42:32
Give Drk a crit stance then :P
Kinda funny you want DRK to be unique but then want it to have stances like the other jobs its trying to catch up to.
Serveur: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 611
By Titan.Darkestknight 2011-01-10 17:44:59
Sylph.Kimble said: Give Drk a crit stance then :P
Kinda funny you want DRK to be unique but then want it to have stances like the other jobs its trying to catch up to.
Why would it want to catch up, as you put it?
Not every job needs to be a boring just swing your weapon job.
Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-01-10 18:04:23
Titan.Darkestknight said: Sylph.Kimble said: Give Drk a crit stance then :P
Kinda funny you want DRK to be unique but then want it to have stances like the other jobs its trying to catch up to.
Why would it want to catch up, as you put it?
Not every job needs to be a boring just swing your weapon job.
So again, giving DRK something (stance, crit ws, etc) to be able to do near as much damage as MNK, NIN, WAR is going to take away from everything you like about dark in the first place? I really dont understand your logic.
Serveur: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 611
By Titan.Darkestknight 2011-01-10 18:12:14
Sylph.Kimble said: Titan.Darkestknight said: Sylph.Kimble said: Give Drk a crit stance then :P
Kinda funny you want DRK to be unique but then want it to have stances like the other jobs its trying to catch up to.
Why would it want to catch up, as you put it?
Not every job needs to be a boring just swing your weapon job.
So again, giving DRK something (stance, crit ws, etc) to be able to do near as much damage as MNK, NIN, WAR is going to take away from everything you like about dark in the first place? I really dont understand your logic.
My logic? First thing I've really said to a critical WS or ability.
My point was just not all jobs need to only be able to go in battle and swing their weapon (NIN not included in that.)
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 152
By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-01-10 19:18:12
Odin.Zicdeh said: I've reiterated the point countless times in this thread. If you're trying to solve the "DRK" Issue by making them compete with Warrior and Monk, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Let's say they did give DRK a Crit WS, this Forum would have a "Bawww, DRK needs double attack" post within 20minutes because Warriors are still annihilating them in DPS.
I honestly think they should of made Insurgency a crit ws, no reason to have added it to our arsenal when we already had a better 4 hit ws. A crit ws would fix drk's lacking damage(in the era its in, but probably overall aswell), but like you said not the job as a whole.
I agree and disagree with you on two points, 1) yes drk should be doing around the damage a war can or atleast keeping up with it, after all they are a warrior/fighter class, however how they achieve that should be quite different than how a warrior does. Which brings me to point 2 in which I agree with you, drk needs more unique abilities/JAs exclusively to them and that bests fits their role.
Imo, things like blood weapon and soul eater are great paths to work with, as they both are what drk are about. Calling forth the darkness, and using death type of spells(not literally death itself but the theme) and JAs are exactly what it should have, even curse type of abilities.
Fix last resort duration, and make it like berserk, 3mins duration, 5minute reactivation.
Perhaps make another spikes spell for us, but instead, each time a mob hits the spikes, it gets bad ailments. Curse? Death? Doom? petrification? Terror? Amnesia? Silence? Make it random which procs, and make the % high enough to be worth the casting but low enough not to break the job. Obviously make the NMs have a level of resistance to it.(Most NM/bosses in games have an immunitity to death spells so thats a no brainer on what wont proc on NMs)
I liked the terror stance, that is quite unique for drk and with some work Im sure it would be useful in some ways.
By Serj 2011-01-10 19:37:45
Titan.Darkestknight said: Serj said: Cerberus.Kylos said: Lol, i knew someone would say something very smart and clever there, very funny
I run my own business repairing computers, and i have worked on many projects, and personal stories which meant i have learned how to write fast and in detail, is there a problem with me leaving feedback for this guy? If you do not like reading that much text, then do not read it, simple as
That post was not even long, i have posts in the FF7 PC forum, where i would create posts 5 times the size of that post as feedback for one of the modders, i guess people on this forum cant handle it
No wonder why you have no friends.
Way to be a ***.
Your post was so constructive and eye-opening. I see the world differently now. Thank you for your input.
Bismarck.Selzak
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 89
By Bismarck.Selzak 2011-01-10 20:00:20
Last Resort:
Quote: Ever heard of Merits? Group 1 merits can reduce the recast of Last Resort, it can also increase the attack of Last Resort It stays up for all of 30 seconds and you can reduce the recast from 5:00 to 4:10...
Souleater:
Quote: First of all, during zergs, Souleater and Blood Weapon Quote: I usually turn souleater off just after my weapon skill, as normal hits on souleater is not going to gain so much more damage unless your willing to drain and drain II your HP back that you lost(you also do not want to become a MP sponge to ur mages), if your a DRK who always keeps Souleater for the full duration (unless you 2 hour), then your not using the move properly. That's the problem... Once every two hours, and to occasionally boost a weaponskill. We should be able to use the ability every 5:00 minutes, or at least somewhere around that. It should also be possible to use it for its full duration a lot more often.
Stun:
Quote: If a DRK spent half his time stunning mobs, how is it going to be a good DD? Should this not be left to the mages who are stood back and have a ton of MP? Personally i do not always cast stun every single time its up as DRK does not have a ton of MP like other jobs, and i would rather save the MP for other spells like Drain, Drain II, Absorbs, Endark and Dread Spikes. Stun is nearly an instant cast. If a DRK spent half of his time casting Stun, the mob would likely be stunned for the entire fight. Dread Spikes and Abosrbs will hurt your DoT though.
Direction:
Quote: These are my last words on this post, it seems like you are unhappy that DRK is not essentially a job like WAR or MNK, which are pure melee jobs which are supposed to grab a lot of hate in case the tank goes down, DRK is a Heavy DD which is supposed to take off as much as the tank will let them, if you go beyond that, and your not capable of defending, then your not playing it right, hate control is very important to the DRK job, and it may seem like WAR or MNK might take off slightly more over time, but they do not have the luxury to cure themselves as easily as a DRK, or use other magic spells.
DRK is the expert of Dark magic, BLMs are jealous they did not get Aspir II and DRK did, its difficult to run out of MP if your facing a mob you can aspir off now, you can essentially cast as many spells as you want, as Aspir II is very strong and only 5 mp to cast. That's not at all what I want. Earlier in your post you said that casting Stun too much hurts our DoT, and now you're saying that I want DRK to be a pure melee?
Also, you did not say this, but I wish everyone would stop misreading my post as asking for a 1:00 Terror. I never specified how strong the Terror effect might be, but I imagined something like a slightly stronger Stun (maybe 3-4 seconds).
Cerberus.Kylos
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4454
By Cerberus.Kylos 2011-01-10 23:02:38
I did check the spelling on my post before i made it, not every sentence may have been totally grammatically correct lol.
I have many friends by the way, i just stated my opinions on a thread made about the job i love to play, and just told him how wrong i think his ideas are, and then gave some of my own ideas.
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Cerberus.Kylos
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4454
By Cerberus.Kylos 2011-01-10 23:06:31
My suggestions on DRK are simply these.
-Give DRK a way to cast spells faster
-Give an ability which can boost the party in some way
-New DRK only spells, Stunga? Drainga and Aspirga? Even Drain III Aspir III or Dread Spikes II would be cool
-New arsenal of absorb spells which are fast to cast, and actually worthwhile, and could possibly pass on its effects to party members.
-Give us a new awesome weaponskill which will make Guillotine look weak.
Bismarck.Altar
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1676
By Bismarck.Altar 2011-01-10 23:35:37
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: DRK could get a stun II III IV V VI and it still would not make it a better job. It would make it the job that sits there with a thunder staff spamming stuns.
Clearly, Drk needs access to a crittable Staff weapon skill
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-01-10 23:41:10
Cerberus.Kylos said: New arsenal of absorb spells which are fast to cast, and actually worthwhile, and could possibly pass on its effects to party members.
Off the top of my head, I just thought of job abilities built on this idea:
Blood Mesh: Adds the total amount of HP drained from your next Drain or Drain II Spell to your and your Party's Maximum HP.
Mana Mesh: Adds the total amount of MP drained from your next Aspir or Aspir II Spell to your and your Party's Maximum MP.
Yes, basically it's Mantra for DRK, but it can stack on top of Mantra, and drain/aspir can resist anyway based on your dark magic skill and/or your target. I'd put my money on using the first one more often than the second. Though, the second could be a nice tool for when you're stuck in a mage-based party.
Valefor.Ivaan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 605
By Valefor.Ivaan 2011-01-10 23:41:59
stun II, maybe some dark magic that casts really fast would be nice, but realistically, drk does not need more magic buffs.
Realistically, do you gear up your drk and say wow cant wait to see how much drain2 does?
no.
your a drk cause you like to melee and cast some spells inbetween, NOT cast spells mainly and melee between magic.
Drk needs an upgrade that would help its ws potential the most.
Allowing guillotine or even quietus or something to crit hit would help it alot.
when i see my quietus on my drk which is well geared being outdone my my war which isnt even 90 for more then a month now out dd it in abyssea, thats what upsets me.
I took war up bc i was seriously tired of drks falling.
I still love drk, but war is just so much more satisfying bc of abyssea.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 91
By Asura.Andradi 2011-01-10 23:58:53
On the souleater discussion, if you have a healer worth half a damn you CAN keep it up for the full duration, at least in abyssea.
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Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7
By Odin.Bigbubba 2011-06-09 06:58:51
i am still just wanting warp for darks. i mean we get teir 3 spells and cant pull off a warp. i would like to see darks get more of a bonus for useing scythes. it bugs the heck out of me to see a dark useing a great sword. if you not trying for a proct you should use scythe. it is our best ranked weapon and kind of a dark trademark. i know some like the great sword more but i just feel scythe fits the job class more.
Bismarck.Nevill
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-09 07:02:20
little late to the party, are we?
By BorealisV2 2011-06-09 07:08:35
Great Sword > Scythe.
Deal with it.
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Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 390
By Bismarck.Pawnskipper 2011-06-14 08:37:09
BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it.
Sometimes....
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2011-06-14 11:08:53
Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it.
Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 390
By Bismarck.Pawnskipper 2011-06-14 15:12:41
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it. Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
You have caladbolg all the time? How do you use it on other jobs that done use great swords?
Bahamut.Serj
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-06-14 15:19:21
Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it. Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
You have caladbolg all the time? How do you use it on other jobs that done use great swords?
Eh? If you have Caladbolg, it's drk's best weapon. Meaning, a scythe isn't worth using. Except maybe Liberator.
Bismarck.Hsieh
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2011-06-14 15:23:52
Bahamut.Serj said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it. Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
You have caladbolg all the time? How do you use it on other jobs that done use great swords?
Eh? If you have Caladbolg, it's drk's best weapon. Meaning, a scythe isn't worth using. Except maybe Liberator. Guess people forgot about Apoc.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2011-06-14 15:24:08
BorealisV2 said: Deal with it.
Fenrir.Gradd
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 15:33:32
Bismarck.Hsieh said: Bahamut.Serj said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: BorealisV2 said: Great Sword > Scythe. Deal with it. Sometimes.... if have caladbolg...all the time
You have caladbolg all the time? How do you use it on other jobs that done use great swords?
Eh? If you have Caladbolg, it's drk's best weapon. Meaning, a scythe isn't worth using. Except maybe Liberator. Guess people forgot about Apoc.
You serious? Apoc is *** horrible. I have one and its garbage.
Phoenix.Fondue
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2713
By Phoenix.Fondue 2011-06-14 15:35:50
Fenrir.Gradd said: Apoc is *** horrible..
a bit of an exaggeration
Fenrir.Gradd
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-06-14 15:37:41
Phoenix.Fondue said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Apoc is *** horrible..
a bit of an exaggeration
Hardly, Apoc is probably the 5th best DRK weapon at the moment.
As far as Scythes are concerned its definatley not the best, its a cool tanking weapon but as far as raw damage is concerned lol no.
Bismarck.Hsieh
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2011-06-14 15:40:51
Fenrir.Gradd said: Phoenix.Fondue said: Fenrir.Gradd said: Apoc is *** horrible..
a bit of an exaggeration
Hardly, Apoc is probably the 5th best DRK weapon at the moment.
As far as Scythes are concerned its definatley not the best, its a cool tanking weapon but as far as raw damage is concerned lol no. So what's the top 4 then?
I'm making this thread to hopefully convince more people to contact SE with suggestions for DRK. If they get a lot of e-mails regarding this one issue in a short period of time, it should at least grab their attention.
Below is what I wrote to them concerning the job. You can discuss, like, hate, be indifferent, or whatever. Please do try to keep it constructive though, and give ideas of your own. Most importantly, send those suggestions forward to SE! I know most of you probably think it's a waste of time, but I think enough feedback would definitely make them think about the job.
Here's the link to contact SE:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1
Here are my suggestions:
Quote: I suspect that this is a popular issue at the moment, and with good reason. Currently, the Dark Knight job is in desperate need of something to set it apart and define its role.
I believe the overall expectation of the job from the community is a melee damage dealer whose specialty (what it does better than any other job) is spike damage while also holding a few unique magic tricks up its sleeve. As it stands now, however, Dark Knights have fallen far behind in damage (especially spike damage) and its casting abilities are on the verge of being obsolete.
To fix this problem properly and maintain the utmost integrity with respect to the job's position in both game mechanics and lore, I would like to propose a few routes that the job could take to fall into its own niche and reestablish balance among jobs. I will do this not with the intention of having specific abilities and traits added, but simply by extending to you certain possible paths that would match the feelings and expectations associated with the job. Ideas from these paths may be extensively altered, combined, and picked apart but I believe the game's balance would benefit greatly by defining the Dark Knight along the following lines:
PATH 1: TERROR
In terms of lore, Dark Knight is a job that is expected to impose fear. In terms of game mechanics, the Dark Knight's most demanded specialty is the ability to Stun enemies. While this is a legitimate and proper role, the only method available to Dark Knight to accomplish this role is the spell, Stun. Not only is this spell not unique to Dark Knight, it is also available from sub jobs. In addition, Dark Knight does not excel at stunning, a stun from a Dark Knight is no better than any other stun. Weapon Bash, with its 5:00 recast is not noteworthy in this scheme.
What I propose, as an individual who has been a FFXI subscriber for the better part of 7 years, is that this becomes the primary role of the Dark Knight. To do this, it is important to remember that a particular role must be filled throughout the duration of a task and abilities and spells should be carefully examined with regard to recast timers. A job ability (Fear), could be used on a target to occasionally inflict the Terror status upon it. This ability could be a 3:00 recast with a 1:00 duration, and the chance of the target being Terrorized could be based on any number of appropriate dynamics. Again, though, it is important to realize that this would be a staple ability of the job, and should be effective enough to give Dark Knights a unique and demanded role in most situations. Perhaps the effectiveness of this ability could be checked against the player's attack, or the amount of overall damage being done to an enemy within a given time. A Dark Knight might use this ability in preparation for a round of elemental spells by the group's mages, and provide an effective and moderately long-lasting halt on the monster's activity to maintain control of the fight.
This route would also benefit from any spell or combination of spells that deal with stopping the monster in its tracks. The single spell, Stun, is not quite enough.
PATH 2: BIG NUMBERS
Most people play Dark Knight expecting to deal large amounts of damage. In contrast to jobs like Monk, which deal huge amounts of damage over time, Dark Knights have been supposed to put out huge amounts of spike damage. There are a few nuances, of which I'm sure the development team is already aware of, that are keeping Dark Knights from realizing this role and I won't go into those. What I will address, however, is what seems to be the most overlooked and blatantly broken ability in the game; Souleater. This is obviously the Dark Knight's defining ability, but it is plainly impractical to utilize within the game's mechanics. Perhaps an ability like the one proposed above (Fear) might allow the player to use Souleater while keeping the monster Terrorized throughout the majority of its allotted activity. Another thing to consider would be a simple job trait (again, working on the lore of an imposing and feared Dark Knight) that reduces the enemies desire (or enmity) towards the Dark Knight either overall, or when the player inflicts large amounts of damage. Maybe this trait could activate when the Dark Knight deals a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, and cause the enemy to lose all enmity on the Dark Knight.
PATH 3: WORTHWHILE MELEE
It seems very wrong that the Dark Knight job can not be considered a serious melee threat. That jobs like Ninja or even Dancer can be considered more capable of melee damage is extremely unfair to Dark Knights and entirely unbalanced. There are so many opportunities to fix this that it seems like a waste of time to offer suggestions, but one problem that is very apparent most players is the inadequacy of the Last Resort ability. This ability should be at least on par with the Warrior ability Berserk, and offer Dark Knight's a longer buff than what it currently allows. The downtime on Last Resort (recast - duration) should be *much* shorter, and a duration of 1:30 or 2:00 seems a lot more reasonable than what it currently is.
These are simply ideas extended to you in an attempt to aid the process of moving the Dark Knight job into an effective and unique role within the game. These ideas come from the community's understanding of the game and the roles of various jobs within it. My hope is that this might provide direction, or simply spark other ideas that would allow Dark Knights to fill one of these roles.
e: For clarity, I am not proposing an ability that would keep the mob Terrorized for a minute. As a whole, I'm not even strictly proposing abilities or spells at all. The idea is to define DRK's role.
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