Blade: Hi WS Set.

Thats because you're pdif is off for both setups, your fstr is off, I dont know where you get 25 vs 26 considering both setups have the same strength(mine having 1 more but thats too small of a margin to consider).

Also kannagi/kamone does not even cap that high, its 14 and 12 for both katanas and capping fstr on a beefy mob isnt happening. Your wsc is too high aswell, assuming the 80s are wsc, that means you have a total of 160 agi(but thats irrelevant tbh).

Also what stats are you using? def? lv? all that plays a part. Mob stats ranging around 100-130 isnt hard to imagine in this game, most abyssea NMs carry those stats. Its not hard to imagine these new outside mobs having that. Meaning mithra's need +49 +59 +69 dex on ws to reach the beginning of the ddex stage. So I can see you getting within the +49dex but not the +59 or 69+ w/o magi katana and and sacing other pieces that might overall lower average damage.

Comparing races for damage is bad. Its like comparing taru blm with a galka/elv blm, and then saying your setup is better because your blm damage was higher....

What race does is allow more flexibility in swapping out gear. Anyhow Ive already listed what you should swap to when you are coming within ddex situations.....so you assuming that youre reaching ddex and still compairing sets means you didnt read.

Do it yourself then.

But I just used a pdif value of 1.5, who cares what the mobs defense is, it will scale evenly with both whether pdif is 1 or 1.3 or 1.8 or 2 or anything else. For fSTR I just divided how much str was in each set by 4, and used that, as if the mob had 0 vit, cause I dont really care, the only that matters is that the fstr/wsc number came out exactly the same, who cares what that value is, because it would be the same for both reguardless. And leonine mask has 3 str on it, my set has more then yours, unless your MKD hat is not 2crit damage 2 ws damage? Cause if it's not you're gonna lose by even more. And I proved leonine mask is better even if both are capped ddex, dont like it? do it yourself.


Does it involve leonine mask and iga cape for outside? Cause if not, you're doing it wrong.

blade: hi is 60% agl, so WSC would be all agladdedtogether*.6 ya?
160*.6=96
133*.6=80~
134*.6=80~
135*.6=81

Is this wrong somehow? is there something I am missing?

Missing the level correction on stat boosts. Seems to be .85 at lvl 90 but can't find a good definite source for it atm.

Your setup only has +46 agi, unless you have 114 base agi, idk where the extra is coming from, but thats irrelevent really like I stated. 160 *6 = 96
96*.85 = 81 wsc

Whats wrong with your numbers is your pdif, you assume that we are both geared the same thus our pdif is equal, mine provides around 38 attack over yours. Just to show you how much a difference that makes ill increase it so slightly and see how it changes the numbers.

Going off your numbers btw, just changing 1.5 to 1.51(realistically 38attack would increase it more)
([160*5.28*1.51*1.02*57] +
[160*5.28*2.5*1.16*1.02*43])/100
You get:
74166
107453
= 1816

Thats just increasing your pdif number of 1.5 to 1.51, 38 attack should be a higher increase than that.

ok, so you managed to prove if your ddex is capped then athling mantle is better then iga cape, but your hat still always loses, and you haven't provided any sort of information for why it's better to build around using athleing instead of iga, like by pointing out whats better to give up to get higher dex. On BG it was decided mobs would require 150-160 now, so how are you getting there with your atheling mantle?

Heck, can you even do 140 without iga cape and give up only stuff with worse gains then athleing over iga?

My original comment still stands, building around leonine/iga cape is better.

No lol, you missed the point again that I put up there on both posts -.-

The setup I had is for any beefy mobs where you DONT achieve ddex range(40-50), When you do, you can clearly start moving pieces around provided they dont drop your average. We dont know what any of the stats on the mobs look like atm so its just up in the air what they could be analyzing abyssea mob stats, even pre-abyssea mobs had 110-150 stats so its not out of the realm for them to have it.

I dont know why you began comparing anwig vs leon, when it was about maats cap, but anwig has 15 acc, probably 1 fstr(hit or miss with leon), and 5 attack. However, lets assume you have to each pizza/sushi to cap acc on a mob. That means anwigs usefulness is out. Maat's cap allows you to require less gear for ddex situations or gives you more dex while you are in that situation, along with more wsc, and more fstr, and possibly more if you dont have to wear another piece to achieve your capped ddex that you might have needed with leon(<-- thats where the utility plays in)

Also im not building around atheling mantle, im building around using less dex pieces, to fit in more stats. Maats/af3+3 body/hands/byakko is +44 alone, thats already great on mithra characters, Thats 135 w/o even sacing any attack/str/agi pieces. On an elvaan you will obviously want more(+rajas/iga cape/cuchu belt/lithe) just to reach that point.

As a mithra Id personally use those 4 pieces, +lithe boots/cuchu belt on harder things, and use hachi feet on lower mobs since I should have a good amount of dex. Id use Iga mantle if I *knew* I was getting the full dex bonus from it. And I wouldnt use leon if i had maats cap <--- This has been the debate the whole time, idk why you are point out about other pieces if that was the debate >.> Maats > Leon.

I used anwig for the build only when the player could make use of the acc w/o needing to resort to pizza. If the player needs pizza then they would swap to maats. If they dont have maats, leon should be the next best thing, Ive already stated that...(bolded just so you dont think Im against having leon mask <.< )

I still fail to see how 4str/agl is better then 3% crit rate, probably because you have provided nothing but idle words, do some math and prove your point, thanks. Otherwise I still win, and leonine is better, you've provided nothing to show it isn't. You've also provided nothing to prove you could even come close to the expected ranges of required dex without giving up something of better gains then atheling mantle over iga cape.

I think the problem is that you seem to think you cannot hit ddex, and I believe you can, and I believe you can on anything right now, and do it with leonine mask, because well, even 170 dex isn't hard to get.

Think about it, if you hit ddex with maats cap, you get 7% crit. If you arent, then thats +7 more dex you are getting + more useful stats where you can drop other gear and get better stats, can drop rajas for agi ring, can drop lithe for hachi, can drop iga for atheling, can drop cuch for ang belt, af+2 gloves for aug'd Kotes.

Look at your own abyssea setup, you dont wear iga,cuch,lithe,af3+2 hands, why? Because the other alternatives are better.

So if Maats lets you get more crit hit rate within 40-50 range, or lets you use less dex pieces and lets you get in better pieces in, why would you go with a piece that only offers a static value and its benefits are only limited.

Here, you have 93 dex, mob with a stat of 90(I cant see this being hard to come by from most new mobs) means you need 140 dex to cap. 12 from body, 10 for hands, 15 from byakko gives you 130.

Looking at your set, its safe to assume you would use cuch belt/iga/leon correct? to fill in that last 10dex.

While you could use maats cap/atheling/cuch belt, while you do gain 6% extra crit rate from your combo, you also only gain 1 fst, 1wsc(your base agi iirc is 88).

While with my combo you gain 22attack(a mob with debuffed with 500-510 def gives you a ratio of .92~ish and 1.17ish with zerk. over yours .87~ish and 1.11ish with zerk, Thats a 6-5% increase just from attack alone), 3% double attack, 2 fstr, 4 wsc.

And all this honestly just puts my set roughly 1 % over yours, at best 2% and at worse right on par.

I wouldnt go out of my way to get one(although abyssea makes it easy) but if I had one, I wouldnt call it crap vs leon....

I can see some utility in leon on weaker mobs, and if ppl dont have maats caps, they should be using leon mask.

Quick question because I don't feel like scanning through the 19 pages to see if the answer is there, does Anwig with AGI/DEX WS DMG/Crit DMG beat out Maat's cap in abyssea? (possibly out as well?) Or would Maat's or Bersail beat it out?

Anwig's better inside.

I was hoping someone would reply to this but it seems to have gone unnoticed. I don't even remember the update where the cap was lifted (or if it was only applicable to the job trait bonus). Can anyone verify one way or another? Or even a link to the update that changed it, I can't find anything.

Oh ya, forgot about this thread.

4str and 4 agl does not beat 3% crit rate for blade hi when your crit rate is low. I'm sorry but you're just stupid and wrong. It's 3% chance to do more then double damage. 4str and 4 agl does not come anywhere close to that. Neither does 1 agl 2% crit damage and 2% ws damage or whatever inferior augment you got on MKD hat.

Also, I advocate Iga cape because you give up less using it compared to other options.

I dont know what math you are doing to get this, but its still showing maats cap generally being the better hat.

Using your mithra and your outside setup keeping everything equal outside head/back, dont need dex from feet so well use hachi, against a mob with 90 vit/agi, which means both setups are hitting Ddex you get:

My setup with maats/atheling:
([(55+7+72) *5.28 * 1.55 * 60] +
[(55+7+72) *5.28 * 2.5 * 1.19 * 40])/100
65799.36
84194.88
= 1499

Your setup with Leon/Iga:
([(55+6+69) *5.25 * 1.5 * 54]+
[(55+6+69) *5.25 *2.5 *1.19 *46])/100
55282.5
93933.54
= 1486


Now lets compare both setups to a low crit situation, where we arent capping Ddex, and lets assume we wont so lets use the same setups and see if youre right.

I kept the mobs vit the same, but I just picked a random number for the agi above 92, which was 105 and plugged it in, which actually doesnt give maat's cap any crit, which should favor your hat right?

*note- changing pieces would obviously get us the ddex situation, but in this situation we dont want to be in a situation where we can achieve that hence nothing was changed to show how they compare when they arent within 40-50+dex over mob agi range.

Maats:
([(55+7+72)*5.28 *1.55 *71]+
[(55+7+72) *5.28 *2.5 *1.19 *29])/100
77862.576
61041.288
=1389

Leon:
([(55+6+69)*5.25 *1.5 *65]+
[(55+6+69) *5.25 *2.5 *1.19 *35])/100
66543.75
71065.3125
=1375

Even then its still not cutting it. The first time you posted your math you had it as if we both had the same attack, but obviously not correct and probably where your numbers are coming out different. Feel free to point out any numerical mistakes.

With your 'stats don't give as much as you think they do' spiel about WSC, when you gain 4 stats, you dont gain 3WSC, hell, even without it, you wouldn't gain 3 stats since it's 60%, not 75%. So you're using to much of a differance between WSC's.
Lets look at it for a second

Level 70~71 0.85
Level 72~73 0.84
Level 74~75 0.83

This is the correction per level. from 70-75 you lose .2. if it stays at this pace, you would lose .6 more going to 90. so you'd be at .77
4*.77*.6=1.848

So you should sometimes have 2 WSC over me, and never 3. And since everything is rounded down, it'll only be 1 sometimes. So we'll give you the benefit here, and switch mine to 70, instead of 71.

Your setup with Leon/Iga:
([(55+6+70) *5.25 * 1.5 * 54]+
[(55+6+70) *5.25 *2.5 *1.19 *46])/100


131 687.75 1031.625 55707.75
131 687.75 1719.375 2046.05625 94118.5875
149826.3375
1498.263375

1 damage lower then your set, and if I gave myself 71, I would of won.

Now lets look at something, Leonine mask is superior to Maats cap. Hands down, no contest.

Now, lets look at the times ninja is useful outside abyssea. This would be when you're fighting weak old content, and your attack would be pretty much capped provided you were using food and berserk, so your attack from atheling mantle isn't all that useful. Meaning you give up less switching from atheling to iga cape if you need the dex. Which is why I didn't bother to change the attack value before, didn't look as though it would be important. Now, if you want to prove your attack isn't capped on EP type mobs, thats fine. You can say yours is better when berserk is down, most of the time, but only by .5%, and whether or not people want to make a new set of macros for when berserk is down to gain .5% WS damage, that's up to them. But what will end up better then your set is something with leonine mask and atheling mantle.

Wanna take a guess at how much more damage my set is over yours when the attack isn't useful?

I think his outside abyssea set is probably geared towards voidwatch and the new dynamis NMs they added which are deffinetly not EP mobs.

Alpha was found to be .85 since 85-90.

So he'd move to slightly above 2 instead of slightly below 2, it would still mostly be 2, and his set would still only be 1 damage higher then mine, and only if gaining full effect from the attack on atheling mantle.

Here I did it real quick, gave my set the extra attack his set had.

([(55+6+70) *5.25 * 1.55 * 54]+
[(55+6+70) *5.25 *2.5 *1.19 *46])/100

131 687.75 1066.0125 57564.675
131 687.75 1719.375 2046.05625 94118.5875
151683.2625
1516.83

So without the attack from atheling mantle mattering, my set is 17 or 18 damage above his. Which is way bigger then the gap was when the attack mattered.

Wont correct you on your wsc mistake as Darka already did, but thats just how it is, you cant say "well if I had 1 wsc over you or the same att from atheling over your setup id win" because that entirely defeats the purpose of compairing the setup just the way they are.

The truth is you dont have that 1wsc and you dont have that extra attack over my setup and your setup never will(until they give those 2 pieces augmenting rights...) when compairing them exactly the same minus the head/back. Thus Maats cap is better under the situation that I have stated these last few pages, on anything worth an effort.


Stating weak old content kinda defeats the whole purpose of me stating from the beginning of this discussion that the setup targeted tougher/high end mobs....doesnt it?

But sure Ill bite. Nothing says old weak content like G.colibri stats, 327 def, 67 agi/vit. Capped Att/Acc np, ddex capped np. Most will have higher stats than that give or take, but im sure everyone can agree these mobs are paper thin and would work well for comparing as an old content stat wise trash mob.

Things to note: AF3+2 body is swapped out for Loki, Af3+2 hands are swapped out for the new possible aug seiryu kotes(+3% crit rate), swap out cent ear for agi+3 earring. Swap out cuch belt for Crudelis belt. While keeping the rest the same, ie qirmiz,hachi feet,byakko,+7agi ring, epona, hope, brutal. My setup swaps out Atheling mantle aswell and uses Iga cape.

*small note: I didnt add +4 agi earring, as it would give my setup another wsc over yours, so I used 3 instead and its not a very common made item for some people to come across. Either way its just more damage for the maats cap setup~

Now the only difference between the both setups is Maats cap vs Leon. Since we're capped in attack I wont add that part in the equation since its the same # for both and the outcome is the same(Ive already calculated it else where beforehand).

Maats:
([(55+10+84)*5.25 * 60]+
[(55+10+84)*5.25 *1.22 *40])/100
46935
38173.8
= 851

Leon:
([(55+9+82)*5.25 *57]+
[(55+9+82)*5.25 *1.22 *43])/100
43690.5
40210.59
= 839

So ya, even on trash mobs, Maats cap is still in the lead. Thats already 3 different situations that its beaten Leon. Ddex, non ddex and capped attack. The only other situation I can think of would be capped fstr where Leon would win, and frankly you wont be coming to that point outside abyssea on mobs you would even ask to post a set on for blade: Hi which has an agi mod and not str thus limiting the amount of str you would want to use vs better pieces.

Just for reference: Mithra 88 agi(base) + 78 agi(gear) = 166agi
166*.6 = 99
99*.85 = 84wsc

+74(gear) = 162 agi
162* .6 = 97
97* .85 = 82wsc

Your mithra has 87(base/merits) + 19(gear/food) = 106
((106-67)+4)/4 =
(39+4)/4 =
43/4 =
= 10 Fstr

87(base/merits) + 15(gear/food) = 102
((102-67)+4)/4 =
(35+4)/4 =
39/4 =
= 9 Fstr

Byakko's have crit dmg 4% augment and seiryu crit rate +3

My question is, should i use hope torque/anguinus for neck and waist slot and ambushers hose in place of the byakko's?

Any feedback much appreciated ^^

Personally I like the gorget/belt. I really, really, really hate missing that main hit and having those on just makes me feel better - I hope you can find someone that's done testing. I'd highly recommend you get the mkd head piece with 4 dex, 4 agi, 2% crit and 2% ws damage - It's orgasmic.

You got some much wrong in this post, I'm not even going to correct it or bother responding to you anymore..... well ok, 1 thing. I'll correct 1 thing.
How does crit hit rate improve damage? It changes the pdif from 2 to 3, and you didn't even feel the need to add that to your equation to try and prove leonine was inferior. You didn't add any pdif at all. Unless having capped attack doesn't increase your pdif from 2 to 3? Maybe? If that's true then I guess you'd be right, but I don't think it is =3

And PROTIP: When fighting overly hard mobs, it works better to just go into your mog house, and switch off the job that's only good for weak content.

hope/anguinus combination equates to pretty much the same accuracy total (infact one in hope/anguinus's favor, 6 + 15 vs 10 + 10), but regardless, they're all pretty close in essence if you're aiming for a end-all be-all set without spellcast (hope/gorget for neck, aesir/centaurus for earring, anguinus/crudelis/belt for waist), and even with spellcast, inventory on nin is terrible :(

I have already stated why I didnt add it. Both setups get multiplied by the same number during non crit % and then again by another number during crit % but both setups still have the same. The only thing that changes is the gap, but I assure you the outcome is still the same.

Correct.

Think about it, if capped attack gave you a pdif of 3, and crit gave you a pdif of 3, then crit rate would be useless in a capped attack situation, which is obviously not the case right? In fact the higher crit rate % you have, the more attack gets devalued, But thats all about balance aswell.


Now that Ive addressed the one you pointed out, Id like to know what else is wrong, so that I can correct it so people looking for information get as much correct information as possible.


When did I ever mention I was fighting tough mobs on ninja? People are posting outside sets and asking for outside sets aswell. I saw a lot of builds focusing on sets assuming ddex, and I posted a set to deal with any newer/tougher mobs that people who decide to use ninja on can work with if they dont cap ddex.

sore loser much?

chill

Not sure if this post is dead or not yet, but as they took crit hit cap, would cavaros mantle bebetter than atheling inside abyssea?

no

After 50 augments I finally ended up with a decent b. haidate, but I am wondering if it is good enough to replace ambushers for Blade: Hi just yet.

It has crit hit dmg+4% store tp+2.

So it's DEX+15 crit hit dmg+4% store tp+2 vs AGI+10. Thoughts?