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Suggestions for PLD
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2010-12-10 14:18:29
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Ragnarok.Sekundes said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: The only thing that would somewhat fix PLD is giving it further -dmg abilities, and simultaneously introducing enemies that require this mitigation. As it stands, everything can be tanked by DDs, and they output more DMG. So unless they gimp DDs tanking abilities (unlikely) or do the above, PLD won't see much spotlight. Also Cure V is a pretty bad addition to PLD due to it's enmity cap. I don't even
The way they made the cure line of spells was for 75, cure V was never intended to be given to any other job but, SE can simply give a new line of spells to other jobs that still need a better curing method.
They could give a 'cure v' version to pld and other jobs like rdm and sch and just call it something else. It would cure a similar amount, perhaps have similar mechanics except don't cap the hate.
He didn't specify that. And regardless, keeping hate is not the problem (something that doesn't seem to sink in with most PLDs out there). Any job can keep hate, and most likely better than PLD, the problem comes with increments to DPS or party performance, something which PLD contributes zero to.
Wasn't saying he did, I agree that Cure V is a bad addition and isn't going to help. Just mentioning a way they could add some better cures cause cure IV isn't enough anymore. This might not resolve the overall issue but it's certainly not going to hurt.
 Cerberus.Blazed
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-10 16:13:23
none of you mentioned where I put CV.
".Holy stance -Cure potency +50%, Healing Magic delays -50%, Healing Magic Mp consumption +50%.
Grants access to additional White Magic spells. (CureV, Curaga1 & 2)"
This is obviously not a tanking stance. Its a momentary whm stand in stance. If you think its useful or not is something else. But none of the stances came alone, and none were the be-all to the PLD problem.
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Leviathan.Cloudydemise 2010-12-10 16:28:24
I have what I believe to be a wonderful suggestion to this problem people seem to be having with pld.. Level NIN!!!! :P
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-10 16:30:37
Leviathan.Cloudydemise said: I have what I believe to be a wonderful suggestion to this problem people seem to be having with pld.. Level MNK!!!! :P ftfy
Cerberus.Blazed
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-10 16:56:58
Leviathan.Cloudydemise said: I have what I believe to be a wonderful suggestion to this problem people seem to be having with pld.. Level NIN!!!! :P got pimp war/sam, pimper mnk, pimper nin.
I'm sure many PLDs do. Doesn't mean we don't want to play PLD anymore.
[+]
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 516
By Siren.Flunklesnarkin 2010-12-10 22:52:58
fear my paint skills >_>
Bismarck.Apathy
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Bismarck.Apathy 2010-12-10 23:39:29
Siren.Flunklesnarkin said: Just give pld something like accomplice / collaborator. make it take a portion of the entire party's hate give it a 1 min reuse timer other than that i dont see how pld will become any more relevant
I like this one the best. The pt could continue to make hate as is. It sounds like an FF JA, rather than a WoW one, and it's realistic for the amount of change SE typically introduces at once. Hasso/seigan and yonin/innin were among few flukes in a long history of baby step changes to job versatilities.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 389
By Asura.Patriclis 2010-12-11 00:32:46
Cerberus.Blazed said:
Some additions to PLD that would not be game breaking.
1. Divine Aura : - 25 % PDT , - 25% MDT, Regen (20HP/tick) Attack -25%, accuracy -25%, evasion -25% for pt members.
Duration 3 minutes, cool down 5 minutes
the next 3 are the seigan/hasso, yonnin/innin of PLD. (yes 3 stances)
Duration 2 minutes, cool down 2 minutes.
2.Intimidating stance: Melee attacks slow +25%, Fast Cast +25%, Raises Enmity cap to 200% for PLD, doubles CE/VE values on all spells. Reduces cool down time on Sentinel and Rampart. (-1 minute on each)
3.Holy stance -Cure potency +50%, Healing Magic delays -50%, Healing Magic Mp consumption +50%.
Grants access to additional White Magic spells. (CureV, Curaga1 & 2)
4.Iron wall Stance - Melee Slow +90%, defense +50%, vit +50, shield proc rate +25%. Reduces recast time on Shield Bash, Reprisal and Augments Cover effect (Cover becomes Aoe, coverga)
Wishful thinking is an understatement. But with the above, PLD would never go emo again lol.
Not going to bother commenting on the other stuff but... holy stance? Nevermind the fact that you've been playing WoW too much, letting paladin hit the cure speed and potency cap with a JA would be just slapping WHM in the face considering the work they have to do to get that stuff. All your ideas are far too game breaking. This is what happens when people who don't know a thing about balance try and come up with game ideas. Guess I shouldn't blame you though, it's not like you're in school for this stuff.
Fenrir.Krazyrs
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 716
By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2010-12-11 01:23:29
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Leviathan.Cloudydemise said: I have what I believe to be a wonderful suggestion to this problem people seem to be having with pld.. Level MNK!!!! :P ftfy this was my quick fix
now just to change it to LEVEL GUARD!! :(
Fenrir.Gradd
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-12-11 09:32:33
Fenrir.Krazyrs said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Leviathan.Cloudydemise said: I have what I believe to be a wonderful suggestion to this problem people seem to be having with pld.. Level MNK!!!! :P ftfy this was my quick fix
now just to change it to LEVEL GUARD!! :(
You have WAR you dont need to level MNK! WAR/MNK Counter Stance Tank gooooooooooooooo!
I actually want to try that out but my MNK sub is gimp atm ~_~
I think with Gnarled horn it could be a decent Tanking combo, that and there is a 2nd Counter Atma with STR superior on it.
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2010-12-11 10:01:20
They need to make these new hnms Really goddamn fkin hard, so hard, you pretty much have to have pld or nin in order to tank it, they need to make them like level 110, make it to where they have some move that 1/2s your shadows, make them so hardcore, sams barely break 300dmg ws'in with both v.v. and r.r atmas >_<. make em so hard mnks with empyrian do like 10dmg each it, wars with empyrian do 50
Make them so hard, they have moves that decrease how many shadows you get with ni/ichi
There should be a new undead hnm, that has instant death on melle,, and only way to not get killed by it is have pld's speluncher abilty up
Just saying, not a damn thing pld can do to keep hate, if dd jobs are melleing for like 300+each hit, and wsin for over 3keasily....
Best thing for pld atm, is to get the empyrian gsword, and make it a decent dd...
I love pld, still do, and it pains me alot to say this, but pld is balls atm >_<.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 159
By Odin.Spccdog 2010-12-11 10:29:43
PLD is dead , level monk
Cerberus.Blazed
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-11 19:05:45
Siren.Flunklesnarkin said:
fear my paint skills >_>
This is Epic! My new sig!
[+]
Cerberus.Blazed
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-11 19:09:33
Asura.Patriclis said: Cerberus.Blazed said:
Some additions to PLD that would not be game breaking.
1. Divine Aura : - 25 % PDT , - 25% MDT, Regen (20HP/tick) Attack -25%, accuracy -25%, evasion -25% for pt members.
Duration 3 minutes, cool down 5 minutes
the next 3 are the seigan/hasso, yonnin/innin of PLD. (yes 3 stances)
Duration 2 minutes, cool down 2 minutes.
2.Intimidating stance: Melee attacks slow +25%, Fast Cast +25%, Raises Enmity cap to 200% for PLD, doubles CE/VE values on all spells. Reduces cool down time on Sentinel and Rampart. (-1 minute on each)
3.Holy stance -Cure potency +50%, Healing Magic delays -50%, Healing Magic Mp consumption +50%.
Grants access to additional White Magic spells. (CureV, Curaga1 & 2)
4.Iron wall Stance - Melee Slow +90%, defense +50%, vit +50, shield proc rate +25%. Reduces recast time on Shield Bash, Reprisal and Augments Cover effect (Cover becomes Aoe, coverga)
Wishful thinking is an understatement. But with the above, PLD would never go emo again lol.
Not going to bother commenting on the other stuff but... holy stance? Nevermind the fact that you've been playing WoW too much, letting paladin hit the cure speed and potency cap with a JA would be just slapping WHM in the face considering the work they have to do to get that stuff. All your ideas are far too game breaking. This is what happens when people who don't know a thing about balance try and come up with game ideas. Guess I shouldn't blame you though, it's not like you're in school for this stuff.
lol I actually have been playing a bit too much wow.
And, um yeah I do kinda work in the content generation industry. Not on content development, but in business development. I never have anything to do with actual game design, but that doesn't stop me from having a few convos with my nerdier colleagues who do design and develop content.
Its meant to be game breaking. And hey, I made holy stance consume a lot more MP, so that it wouldn't wipe out whms.
Atmas are game breaking. A few months ago if I had told anyone SE was going to come out with Razed Ruins and some other atmas, as well as new weapons that made relics loook gimp, they would have said exactly what you're saying right now.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-17 02:37:56
New provoke... Can't think of name.
Recast: 2 mins
Effect: For 30 seconds the 'provoked' enemy will attack you
Nothing to do with enmity at all, just simply whilst that effect is in play the mob won't target anything but the tank. Also piece of gear that extends it to 1 minute.
Bahamut.Raizen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Bahamut.Raizen 2010-12-17 03:08:17
Almace + Joytoy = Insta useful PLD again.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-12-17 13:08:07
Higher enmity cieling than other jobs.
Another hate tool, could be CureV, Provoke 2, Flash 2, something that steals hate from party members.
More serious damage. Could be higher damage cap on Atonement, a new WS etc etc.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 100
By Shiva.Ravager 2010-12-17 13:59:41
Shiva.Darkshade said: Higher enmity cieling than other jobs.
Another hate tool, could be CureV, Provoke 2, Flash 2, something that steals hate from party members.
More serious damage. Could be higher damage cap on Atonement, a new WS etc etc.
>hate tool
>Cure V
Pick one
Bismarck.Punchus
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 233
By Bismarck.Punchus 2010-12-17 14:26:43
I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability.
Fenrir.Gradd
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-12-17 16:15:52
Bismarck.Punchus said: I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability.
Reprisal sup?
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-17 16:23:49
Bismarck.Punchus said: I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability. How does this help PLD?
Fenrir.Schutz
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-12-17 16:26:32
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bismarck.Punchus said: I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability. How does this help PLD?
I think the concept is that PLD then could sub other jobs like SAM or NIN and retain a provoke ability for VE, on top of that other ability's (WS spam or enmity retention defense) JA.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-17 16:27:39
I always thought PLD should get provoke natively to free up subs.
Fenrir.Gradd
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Fenrir.Gradd 2010-12-17 16:28:55
Pre Abyssea good PLD never needed voke to keep hate Period. PLD/NIN or GTFO, but now PLD just sucks, play another job. PLD is going to keep sucking the next 3 months, get over it already.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-17 16:29:54
Fenrir.Schutz said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bismarck.Punchus said: I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability. How does this help PLD?
I think the concept is that PLD then could sub other jobs like SAM or NIN and retain a provoke ability for VE, on top of that other ability's (WS spam or enmity retention defense) JA. Ok, now explain to me how that makes Provoke useful for PLD.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-17 16:30:41
Fenrir.Gradd said: Pre Abyssea good PLD never needed voke to keep hate Period. PLD/NIN or GTFO, but now PLD just sucks, play another job. PLD is going to keep sucking the next 3 months, get over it already.
Who's saying I'm not already over it? I never really liked PLD anyway, but I'd like to see it become a good job all the same. Wouldn't you?
Fenrir.Schutz
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-12-17 16:34:05
Fenrir.Gradd said: Pre Abyssea good PLD never needed voke to keep hate Period. PLD/NIN or GTFO, but now PLD just sucks, play another job. PLD is going to keep sucking the next 3 months, get over it already.
Yah, I do agree--just when SE is trying to reassure the community that it wants to place PLD on the forefront of party tanking, and go so far as to place many features on the Creed suit set-bonus that work to either retain enmity or use it as a factor of damage reduction...but then put enmity values on only 2 of the 5 Creed AF pieces? 9_9 (And only on one of the three new AF accessory pieces?)
I know creating enmity-gear-swap macros is nothing new or different from what we've been doing before, but you'd think that SE would at least include more enmity on something that was designed to be worn as a set. :/ I feel they are slightly out-of-touch on how the game operates on the granular level, at least for things like this.
Fenrir.Schutz
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-12-17 16:38:47
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Fenrir.Schutz said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bismarck.Punchus said: I'd be happy to see SE give PLD provoke or a form of reflect be it spell or ability. How does this help PLD? I think the concept is that PLD then could sub other jobs like SAM or NIN and retain a provoke ability for VE, on top of that other ability's (WS spam or enmity retention defense) JA. Ok, now explain to me how that makes Provoke useful for PLD.
LOL I'm not going to be roped into defending the hate mechanic that is currently in place or how it works (or doesn't) with the current Abyssea end-game, but was just explaining the concept of what Punchus was saying.
And I do agree with Gradd on the ability of skilled and well-geared PLD/NIN to max hate quickly especially with the old Atonement spam dynamic, but regardless of the stand on it, you know that if PLD did have a native provoke, every paladin would be spamming it every 30 seconds, regardless of how good or little good it would do no? Any extra tool would be valuable if it did anything at all, really.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-17 17:20:09
Quote: Any extra tool would be valuable if it did anything at all, really. Sure, but Provoke does nothing at all for PLD. That was my point, you recap VE every time you hit the mob at this point so you'd be better off saving yourself the JA delay, capping anyway, and killing faster. Provoke is for things like grabbing hate off a puller, not keeping a NM's attention.
Beefing up PLD's dmg output to be on par with current DDs isn't going to come from the devs.
While I'm sure PLD/NIN and PLD/SAM properly geared could potentially be efficient DDs, this isn't the intended role for PLD.
So lets humor SE and offer some suggestions on what PLD currently is missing to be able to retain some sort of slot in an alliance.
Right now there are no real Job specific benefits offered by PLD other than Sepulcher, which will probably turn out to be laughable.
Some additions to PLD that would not be game breaking.
1. Divine Aura : - 25 % PDT , - 25% MDT, Regen (20HP/tick) Attack -25%, accuracy -25%, evasion -25% for pt members.
Duration 3 minutes, cool down 5 minutes
the next 3 are the seigan/hasso, yonnin/innin of PLD. (yes 3 stances)
Duration 2 minutes, cool down 2 minutes.
2.Intimidating stance: Melee attacks slow +25%, Fast Cast +25%, Raises Enmity cap to 200% for PLD, doubles CE/VE values on all spells. Reduces cool down time on Sentinel and Rampart. (-1 minute on each)
3.Holy stance -Cure potency +50%, Healing Magic delays -50%, Healing Magic Mp consumption +50%.
Grants access to additional White Magic spells. (CureV, Curaga1 & 2)
4.Iron wall Stance - Melee Slow +90%, defense +50%, vit +50, shield proc rate +25%. Reduces recast time on Shield Bash, Reprisal and Augments Cover effect (Cover becomes Aoe, coverga)
Wishful thinking is an understatement. But with the above, PLD would never go emo again lol.
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