Views On Astral Burning?
Views on Astral burning?
I know I'm poking a dead horse, but why do people complain about these parties exactly?
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bc they cant get in them/organize it themselves =P
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I agree, i see no reason to complain about this. As long as its not cheating, and rounding up every mob in the area and killing them can hardly be called cheating. Its a tactic like any other party setup, tp burn, mana burn, pet burn you name it. And i must say thumbs up to the guy that actually invented it. Must have been some tries and fails there.
i think most of the people complaining are the usual crybabies that complain about beastmasters soloing, how they cant beat missions and thats for some reason SE's fault, the ones that burn other jobs than their own whithout even knowing what they talk about, using gear that mess up your party hate and sais its worth it... i.e. the usual dumb players that cant get stuff done themselves and sits on a shelf high above everyone else in their own personal place of missery :)
so yeah, go burn ftw :)
i think most of the people complaining are the usual crybabies that complain about beastmasters soloing, how they cant beat missions and thats for some reason SE's fault, the ones that burn other jobs than their own whithout even knowing what they talk about, using gear that mess up your party hate and sais its worth it... i.e. the usual dumb players that cant get stuff done themselves and sits on a shelf high above everyone else in their own personal place of missery :)
so yeah, go burn ftw :)
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Forgive me if I missed this point in the 12 or so pages of this that I didn't read, but the biggest argument against this tactic seems to be "OMG, we're going to have a buttload of gimp Maat's Cap holders!!!"
If I'm not mistaken, obtaining Maat's Cap requires more than just having certain jobs at level 66+. One must defeat Maat with Bard, Beastmaster, Black Mage, Dark Knight, Dragoon, Monk, Ninja, Paladin, Ranger, Red Mage, Samurai, Summoner, Thief, Warrior and White Mage.
That requires farming at least 15 testimonies. It requires skillups. It requires gear. It requires at least a basic understanding of the job and it's abilities.
By the timeframes given (lv 75 in 3-5 days or less), it appears that a lot of the original posters are bothered by the fact that someone will come along and obtain Maat's Cap after 45-75 days, and this is obviously not ever going to be the case.
If I'm not mistaken, obtaining Maat's Cap requires more than just having certain jobs at level 66+. One must defeat Maat with Bard, Beastmaster, Black Mage, Dark Knight, Dragoon, Monk, Ninja, Paladin, Ranger, Red Mage, Samurai, Summoner, Thief, Warrior and White Mage.
That requires farming at least 15 testimonies. It requires skillups. It requires gear. It requires at least a basic understanding of the job and it's abilities.
By the timeframes given (lv 75 in 3-5 days or less), it appears that a lot of the original posters are bothered by the fact that someone will come along and obtain Maat's Cap after 45-75 days, and this is obviously not ever going to be the case.
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Deist said:
I say it depends on the player. I have seen plenty of players come from a burn and know nothing of the job. And seen a some people come from it - and actually take the time after to learn it.
Nightfyre said:
AFburning does not have any long-term effects on your ability to play a given job.
Never said you'd immediately know how to play the job.
Zicdeh said:
Yah, what it does is create tons of people who did not level their job, so they do not know what to do, yet have it at 75. Hence why It's only up 4% from before Astral Burns, cause too many morons already got to 75 from ToAU. If you can't see that, you're one of the morons in denial. Trust me, it's much more obvious from the outside.
For the record, I don't have a single point of exp from an AFburn. Take your holier-than-thou ***elsewhere.
Nightfyre said:
1) FFXI is not a difficult game. This is self-evident. You count and press some buttons. The closest thing the game has to a combo is SC-MB which merely requires counting seconds and knowing the chain, ie memorization and repetition, along with the ability to read and follow directions/respond dynamically. You are playing a video game, you should already have the above skill set.
1a) Most jobs require minimal skill. Engage the mob, use abilities when active, if you're taking damage do something to minimize damage until you are no longer taking damage or are dead. Playing a job aggressively is another matter but even that is not horribly difficult due to slow pacing.
1b) The most complex math required to play the job at a high level is basic algebra, maybe some statistics. Determining the optimal setup for a given situation is generally simple as a result.
2) The basic functions of a given job in EXP are the same at level 20 as they are at level 70. DDs are still DDs, tanks are still tanks, healers are still healers, support are still support. The only thing that changes is your move set. Secondary roles are generally present at all stages or arise as a result of subjob abilities rather than the main job's capacity to naturally fill that role, referencing point 3 in advance. If abilities enable additional abilities, see 2a.
2a) Most jobs never gain more than 10 JAs/JTs. The end result of learning these JAs/JTs and their interactions with other JAs/JTs or those of another player is the same if this learning is carried out at 75 as if it was learned at the level you acquire these skills. In some cases, it removes the need to unlearn habits - see Trick Attack before and after Assassin.
2b) Jobs that gain a wide range of abilities have high levels of repetition. Nothing changes except potency until new abilities are introduced, see 2a.
3) The roles of certain jobs change drastically at 75, rendering much of what you learned prior to that point invalid or requiring new knowledge that you would not have gathered in EXP 1-75.
3a) Optimal job combinations change, the most prominent example being PLD/WAR for EXP and /NIN /DRK /RDM for endgame.
4) The structure of the game changes at 75. The longest single fight you'll ever be involved in before 75 will probably see you dead if it lasts more than 15 minutes, at 75 events and single fights go non-stop for far longer periods of time in a manner that extended EXP parties do not prepare you for, with the possible exception of healing jobs (managing MP). These healing jobs refer back to 2, 2a, and 2b.
1a) Most jobs require minimal skill. Engage the mob, use abilities when active, if you're taking damage do something to minimize damage until you are no longer taking damage or are dead. Playing a job aggressively is another matter but even that is not horribly difficult due to slow pacing.
1b) The most complex math required to play the job at a high level is basic algebra, maybe some statistics. Determining the optimal setup for a given situation is generally simple as a result.
2) The basic functions of a given job in EXP are the same at level 20 as they are at level 70. DDs are still DDs, tanks are still tanks, healers are still healers, support are still support. The only thing that changes is your move set. Secondary roles are generally present at all stages or arise as a result of subjob abilities rather than the main job's capacity to naturally fill that role, referencing point 3 in advance. If abilities enable additional abilities, see 2a.
2a) Most jobs never gain more than 10 JAs/JTs. The end result of learning these JAs/JTs and their interactions with other JAs/JTs or those of another player is the same if this learning is carried out at 75 as if it was learned at the level you acquire these skills. In some cases, it removes the need to unlearn habits - see Trick Attack before and after Assassin.
2b) Jobs that gain a wide range of abilities have high levels of repetition. Nothing changes except potency until new abilities are introduced, see 2a.
3) The roles of certain jobs change drastically at 75, rendering much of what you learned prior to that point invalid or requiring new knowledge that you would not have gathered in EXP 1-75.
3a) Optimal job combinations change, the most prominent example being PLD/WAR for EXP and /NIN /DRK /RDM for endgame.
4) The structure of the game changes at 75. The longest single fight you'll ever be involved in before 75 will probably see you dead if it lasts more than 15 minutes, at 75 events and single fights go non-stop for far longer periods of time in a manner that extended EXP parties do not prepare you for, with the possible exception of healing jobs (managing MP). These healing jobs refer back to 2, 2a, and 2b.
If you are so *** incompetent that you couldn't have a 75 DD put in front of you and know how to play it within a month, you'd really be better off uninstalling FFXI. Even basic healing, tanking, and support are not difficult roles to fulfill. There are a handful of jobs that take anything even resembling skill to play in FFXI - learning these jobs at 75 does not make you any worse at them as if you had exp'd them "properly". These jobs are only "difficult" because of a wide range of abilities they have to balance, which only requires time to learn.
EXP is a timesink designed to teach you your job, but you can learn a job just as easily at 75 when you have all those abilities.
Katarzyna said:
I hate retards who AB in the early levels and don't take time to skill up on the 8-12 levels they missed out on cause they were distracted by the 1337 exp. Then they turn around and say "I am skilling up...right now in this party." Go skill up on someone else's time, not mine.
I agree with this, though acting like it only applies to AFburned exp is silly. Level Sync demands you skill up if you want to function in a party, get off your *** and skillup when you're not in a *** party.
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Boyaci said:
By the timeframes given (lv 75 in 3-5 days or less), it appears that a lot of the original posters are bothered by the fact that someone will come along and obtain Maat's Cap after 45-75 days, and this is obviously not ever going to be the case.
Maybe some people are crazy obsessive, but you'd have to burn 3-5 days straight to hit 75 :X Takes like forty minutes a pull and too many things can mess up, etc.
I honestly think that astral burn parties are no different than colibri at all. It follows the mathematical distributive property, in some sick sense; instead of killing 100 mobs in an hour at bird camp, I kill 130 mobs in the tunnels a bit faster. Is there any skill at all in your average merit party? Now, the risk of that speed and mob difference? Much riskier to astral burn. People sleepga II'ing your mobs, a SMN is stupid and dies and you fail, etc etc. An average merit party doesn't need to worry.
Basically, in my opinion, if you say fighting birds are fine but astral burns aren't, particularly level synced, you're kind of a hypocrite. They both take 0 skill. I've main healed, pulled, and DD'd on birds. No skill needed at all. Astral burning? You hit a 2hr and some buttons after aggroing everything. No skill at all.
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Astral Burn in FFxi is like Fast Forwarding the frame rate of any Snes RPG on ZNES while lvling up. Accelerated fun!
Nightfyre said:
Deist said:
I say it depends on the player. I have seen plenty of players come from a burn and know nothing of the job. And seen a some people come from it - and actually take the time after to learn it.
Nightfyre said:
AFburning does not have any long-term effects on your ability to play a given job.
Never said you'd immediately know how to play the job.
Zicdeh said:
Yah, what it does is create tons of people who did not level their job, so they do not know what to do, yet have it at 75. Hence why It's only up 4% from before Astral Burns, cause too many morons already got to 75 from ToAU. If you can't see that, you're one of the morons in denial. Trust me, it's much more obvious from the outside.
For the record, I don't have a single point of exp from an AFburn. Take your holier-than-thou ***elsewhere.
Nightfyre said:
1) FFXI is not a difficult game. This is self-evident. You count and press some buttons. The closest thing the game has to a combo is SC-MB which merely requires counting seconds and knowing the chain, ie memorization and repetition, along with the ability to read and follow directions/respond dynamically. You are playing a video game, you should already have the above skill set.
1a) Most jobs require minimal skill. Engage the mob, use abilities when active, if you're taking damage do something to minimize damage until you are no longer taking damage or are dead. Playing a job aggressively is another matter but even that is not horribly difficult due to slow pacing.
1b) The most complex math required to play the job at a high level is basic algebra, maybe some statistics. Determining the optimal setup for a given situation is generally simple as a result.
2) The basic functions of a given job in EXP are the same at level 20 as they are at level 70. DDs are still DDs, tanks are still tanks, healers are still healers, support are still support. The only thing that changes is your move set. Secondary roles are generally present at all stages or arise as a result of subjob abilities rather than the main job's capacity to naturally fill that role, referencing point 3 in advance. If abilities enable additional abilities, see 2a.
2a) Most jobs never gain more than 10 JAs/JTs. The end result of learning these JAs/JTs and their interactions with other JAs/JTs or those of another player is the same if this learning is carried out at 75 as if it was learned at the level you acquire these skills. In some cases, it removes the need to unlearn habits - see Trick Attack before and after Assassin.
2b) Jobs that gain a wide range of abilities have high levels of repetition. Nothing changes except potency until new abilities are introduced, see 2a.
3) The roles of certain jobs change drastically at 75, rendering much of what you learned prior to that point invalid or requiring new knowledge that you would not have gathered in EXP 1-75.
3a) Optimal job combinations change, the most prominent example being PLD/WAR for EXP and /NIN /DRK /RDM for endgame.
4) The structure of the game changes at 75. The longest single fight you'll ever be involved in before 75 will probably see you dead if it lasts more than 15 minutes, at 75 events and single fights go non-stop for far longer periods of time in a manner that extended EXP parties do not prepare you for, with the possible exception of healing jobs (managing MP). These healing jobs refer back to 2, 2a, and 2b.
1a) Most jobs require minimal skill. Engage the mob, use abilities when active, if you're taking damage do something to minimize damage until you are no longer taking damage or are dead. Playing a job aggressively is another matter but even that is not horribly difficult due to slow pacing.
1b) The most complex math required to play the job at a high level is basic algebra, maybe some statistics. Determining the optimal setup for a given situation is generally simple as a result.
2) The basic functions of a given job in EXP are the same at level 20 as they are at level 70. DDs are still DDs, tanks are still tanks, healers are still healers, support are still support. The only thing that changes is your move set. Secondary roles are generally present at all stages or arise as a result of subjob abilities rather than the main job's capacity to naturally fill that role, referencing point 3 in advance. If abilities enable additional abilities, see 2a.
2a) Most jobs never gain more than 10 JAs/JTs. The end result of learning these JAs/JTs and their interactions with other JAs/JTs or those of another player is the same if this learning is carried out at 75 as if it was learned at the level you acquire these skills. In some cases, it removes the need to unlearn habits - see Trick Attack before and after Assassin.
2b) Jobs that gain a wide range of abilities have high levels of repetition. Nothing changes except potency until new abilities are introduced, see 2a.
3) The roles of certain jobs change drastically at 75, rendering much of what you learned prior to that point invalid or requiring new knowledge that you would not have gathered in EXP 1-75.
3a) Optimal job combinations change, the most prominent example being PLD/WAR for EXP and /NIN /DRK /RDM for endgame.
4) The structure of the game changes at 75. The longest single fight you'll ever be involved in before 75 will probably see you dead if it lasts more than 15 minutes, at 75 events and single fights go non-stop for far longer periods of time in a manner that extended EXP parties do not prepare you for, with the possible exception of healing jobs (managing MP). These healing jobs refer back to 2, 2a, and 2b.
If you are so *** incompetent that you couldn't have a 75 DD put in front of you and know how to play it within a month, you'd really be better off uninstalling FFXI. Even basic healing, tanking, and support are not difficult roles to fulfill. There are a handful of jobs that take anything even resembling skill to play in FFXI - learning these jobs at 75 does not make you any worse at them as if you had exp'd them "properly". These jobs are only "difficult" because of a wide range of abilities they have to balance, which only requires time to learn.
EXP is a timesink designed to teach you your job, but you can learn a job just as easily at 75 when you have all those abilities.
Katarzyna said:
I hate retards who AB in the early levels and don't take time to skill up on the 8-12 levels they missed out on cause they were distracted by the 1337 exp. Then they turn around and say "I am skilling up...right now in this party." Go skill up on someone else's time, not mine.
I agree with this, though acting like it only applies to AFburned exp is silly. Level Sync demands you skill up if you want to function in a party, get off your *** and skillup when you're not in a *** party.
Why did you quote yourself..? o_O;
Pulling from a post elsewhere and was lazy, if you're feeling OCD I'll remove the quote tags :P
Not gonna quote from Nightfyre, it's too long and I'm too lazy to edit tags. Suffice it to say, you're overly defensive attitude speaks volumes. Any person with some knowledge of the game, would know, that Endgame and Experience gaining are so vastly different, that Leveling really holds no grounding on the real challenge. For example, when ToAU was "The ***" we started getting hundreds if not thousands of newLv.75s who Thought everything was just a big exp PT, so wouldn't invest in stuff like Enfeeble Skill sets (skill sets period really, Heal onry), or Paladins without a Non Blinking CureIV spam set. A lot are smart enough to take a little criticism and try something new, but even more are too stubborn and up their own *** to take any kind of help. "DONT TELL ME HOW 2 DO MY JOB I GOT 75 NUBZ NUNBZ" is a speech I've heard one too many times from the Melee'ing RDMs at Fafnir.
The Overall point was,Astralburning didn't really change anything. Actually, a good Burn PT is a little faster, depending on how long it takes you to get Corsairs to restore, and how long it takes you to pull. However, we're a little more likely (A little) to find someone like "O I gotz pld 75, I can come tank nid" show up anon and subbing WAR, equipped with Princely Sword for the STR bonus.
The Overall point was,Astralburning didn't really change anything. Actually, a good Burn PT is a little faster, depending on how long it takes you to get Corsairs to restore, and how long it takes you to pull. However, we're a little more likely (A little) to find someone like "O I gotz pld 75, I can come tank nid" show up anon and subbing WAR, equipped with Princely Sword for the STR bonus.
I think it can be summed up like most of XI:
Stupid people abusing the system are stupid and the method becomes bad because it helps them breed stupidity, but experienced and intelligent players shouldn't be too chastised over it so long as they put the effort into making sure not to become a stupid player.
Stupid people abusing the system are stupid and the method becomes bad because it helps them breed stupidity, but experienced and intelligent players shouldn't be too chastised over it so long as they put the effort into making sure not to become a stupid player.
Zicdeh: I'm not being defensive, just annoyed that this topic keeps coming up again and again. This is probably the fourth time in a week I've talked about AFburning, and it's gotten old. I honestly believe that anybody who is going to suck at a job is going to suck just as bad long-term regardless of how they get their EXP. The idiots TPing in STR rings would do so regardless of whether they burned their EXP or leveled it normally; go join a pickup party for ample proof of this. These people will perform the same at EXP as they will in endgame because they don't get it. People who are determined to be melee RDM will do it no matter what the level or situation, AFburning just means they're doing it at 75 that much sooner. The ones who can take advice will eventually understand it's not optimal and will regardless of exp source, the ones who can't, won't.
At best, AFburning actually ends bad habits sooner because they'll get ripped on for doing it wrong at endgame and hopefully never do it again, along with getting people who will strive to understand their jobs to 75 that much sooner. At worst, noobs will be level 75 noobs. That was inevitable anyway, the closest thing to a barrier there is Maat.
You even stated my point for me:
At best, AFburning actually ends bad habits sooner because they'll get ripped on for doing it wrong at endgame and hopefully never do it again, along with getting people who will strive to understand their jobs to 75 that much sooner. At worst, noobs will be level 75 noobs. That was inevitable anyway, the closest thing to a barrier there is Maat.
You even stated my point for me:
Quote:
The Overall point was,Astralburning didn't really change anything.
Sectumsempra said:
I think it can be summed up like most of XI:
Stupid people abusing the system are stupid and the method becomes bad because it helps them breed stupidity, but experienced and intelligent players shouldn't be too chastised over it so long as they put the effort into making sure not to become a stupid player.
Stupid people abusing the system are stupid and the method becomes bad because it helps them breed stupidity, but experienced and intelligent players shouldn't be too chastised over it so long as they put the effort into making sure not to become a stupid player.
Gotta quote this. If you're gonna do it, just make sure to skill up and spend some time getting familiar with the job afterward. And if you're gonna go as sync, level a job that you know you've already got skilled up enough unless you're ok with spending the time to skill up before you try to use the job for anything heavy, like endgame.
People like it because it's easy and fun and gets things done quick. I've always tried to look out and make sure I'm not stepping on anyone else's toes, and for the most part there's been no real activity in the zone when we run.
A millions times yes to everything nightfyre said. Noobs will always be noobs, I know people that levelled a heap of 75's the traditional way and suck at all of them, and I know people that have bought their accounts already at level 75 and you'd never know.
Long story short, AF burning doesn't make noobs, they do that on their own.
Long story short, AF burning doesn't make noobs, they do that on their own.
*Nods.* Astral Burning is nice. I'm AB'ing my Drg to 35-40 right now because all of my skills are already capped on it and I don't feel like leveling it in a party. >.>
I would recommend not doing SMN Burn on a job type you have not done before because you need experience of doing that job.
Thoraeon said:
I would recommend not doing SMN Burn on a job type you have not done before because you need experience of doing that job.
Of course, skilling up later sucks. But, for many jobs, that's easily remedied in Besieged, Sea, breaking latents, getting coffer keys, etc. etc.
Rowland said:
Getting levels by Astral Burning! BANNED!
Oshit wrong thread.
Oshit wrong thread.
lol xD
Tbest said:
Thoraeon said:
I would recommend not doing SMN Burn on a job type you have not done before because you need experience of doing that job.
Of course, skilling up later sucks. But, for many jobs, that's easily remedied in Besieged, Sea, breaking latents, getting coffer keys, etc. etc.
I am talking about having a dd job at 75, the burning a mage job up. The style of play is very different, and it takes different skills (rl not ingame).
Thoraeon said:
Tbest said:
Thoraeon said:
I would recommend not doing SMN Burn on a job type you have not done before because you need experience of doing that job.
Of course, skilling up later sucks. But, for many jobs, that's easily remedied in Besieged, Sea, breaking latents, getting coffer keys, etc. etc.
I am talking about having a dd job at 75, the burning a mage job up. The style of play is very different, and it takes different skills (rl not ingame).
Still have to skill up the job after the AB. Still a chance to learn how to play the job. Meh, doesn't hurt anyone so why even bother?
Worse thing that can happen is that you boot a person that can't play a job. Even then you don't know if that person just plain sucks or is gimped because of an AB.
Worse thing that can happen is that you boot a person that can't play a job. Even then you don't know if that person just plain sucks or is gimped because of an AB.
I'd rather be gimp due to being astral-burned up through a few levels, than be gimp because of level syncing through the same exact levels through the dunes/Quifim.
*Thumbs Up*
Edited to simply state I agree with the two posts above mine.
*Thumbs Up*
Edited to simply state I agree with the two posts above mine.
I don't mind people who AB I would def recommened this for jobs who don't get invited to merit pts...BST,PUP,SMN,PLD etc...
Kryptik said:
I don't mind people who AB I would def recommened this for jobs who don't get invited to merit pts...BST...
Wait you said merit parties... ignore this post -.-
AB is a good way to party to... I'm just recommending this for those people who first job was BST and wanna fully merit Beast Affinity faster then having to ..... all I'm really saying this is just another way to party but for other jobs....
Necro Bump Detected!
[205 days between previous and next post]
Leviathan.Kryptik said:
AB is a good way to party to... I'm just recommending this for those people who first job was BST and wanna fully merit Beast Affinity faster then having to ..... all I'm really saying this is just another way to party but for other jobs....
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