Time To Change Up Your Gear Sets DW Jobs
Time to change up your gear sets DW jobs
oh i looked over my math for my setup and i would have to just drop mirke for loki in a haste/march situation. im less pissed off now than i was earlier n.n
I hate to be the retard to ask about a specific situation but in my case I have 23% haste gear, 30% reduction from DW natively, so I have room at this point for 27% more haste/dual wield.
If I get haste the spell (15) and haste samba (10) then I am 2% from capped?
So I should in my case throw something else on my neck (meaning not charis) and not bother getting a suppa earring then?
If I get haste the spell (15) and haste samba (10) then I am 2% from capped?
So I should in my case throw something else on my neck (meaning not charis) and not bother getting a suppa earring then?
It's not 80% DW + Haste, they are independent of each other.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
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if you had 25% haste in gear, let's see
70%
400 x .3 = 120
120 x .7 = 84. Still 4 delay away from cap
70%
400 x .3 = 120
120 x .7 = 84. Still 4 delay away from cap
Haste is stupid....
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Haste is not stupid. Haste increases attack speed while leaving your tp/hit alone. Martial arts / dual wield / -delay reduction gear increases attack speed but reduces tp gain, so if you have to choose between those and haste, pick the haste.
Edit: Also, haste for recast timers still.
Edit: Also, haste for recast timers still.
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Should know the "augment dual wield" does, someone tried it? with all that info you gave, i could think of: sometimes doesn't reduce TPgain, that would make sense since we can cap it.
Has any testing been done to see that MNK's Martial Arts isn't the same? Unless because it's a direct reduction (not percentage) so it's doesn't apply? I just play MNK on my alt, don't hate me irl. D:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
It's not 80% DW + Haste, they are independent of each other.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
I may just be confused on this, but I was under the impression that DW went first(reducing delay and Tp/hit), then Haste (reducing just delay) which would look more like:
400 x .7 = 280
280 x .32 = 89.6
Granted both produce the same resulting speed so its a not a very good example, but.
Main point being the effect on tp/hit as i could care ***-all for my dps so much as my tp-rate on my DNC.
Mirvana said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
It's not 80% DW + Haste, they are independent of each other.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
So it's not add your total haste and your total DW to get 80. It's that you can get 80% total reduction.
For example we have two 200 delay weps for 400 delay.
80% reduction would leave you with 80 delay.
So, in your case 30% DW and 23% haste. Let's add double march, haste samba, 20 + 15 + 10 = 68% haste
400 x .32 = 128
Apply DW
128 x .7 = 89.6
Cap haste in gear (25%) and adding any more DW will be become pointless, as you're only 9.6 delay away from your cap.
I may just be confused on this, but I was under the impression that DW went first(reducing delay and Tp/hit), then Haste (reducing just delay) which would look more like:
400 x .7 = 280
280 x .32 = 89.6
Granted both produce the same resulting speed so its a not a very good example, but.
Main point being the effect on tp/hit as i could care ***-all for my dps so much as my tp-rate on my DNC.
just a note 391 delay, 17 haste and 45 dual wield puts you right at haste cap
0.55 * 0.83 = 0.4565 which != 0.2
unless I'm missing something? Probably am. Just glancing at stuff while doing math/physicsy stuff at the moment.
unless I'm missing something? Probably am. Just glancing at stuff while doing math/physicsy stuff at the moment.
9%+12.5%+15%+10% = 46.5% base with 2x March + Haste + my own Haste Samba
5%+5%+5%+30%= 45% dual wield with nusku, suppa and charis necklace
4%+5%+3%+6%= 18% haste charis legs/feet/head+2 and ocelot gloves
190+201= 391 delay Daka+1 and Kila+1
391*0.355
138.8*0.55
76.3 delay
391*0.2
78.2 delay cap
5%+5%+5%+30%= 45% dual wield with nusku, suppa and charis necklace
4%+5%+3%+6%= 18% haste charis legs/feet/head+2 and ocelot gloves
190+201= 391 delay Daka+1 and Kila+1
391*0.355
138.8*0.55
76.3 delay
391*0.2
78.2 delay cap
Oh, you were including external haste buffs.
ya currently it's impossible to reach haste cap on dnc without outside buffs
Bahamut.Aeronis said:
Has any testing been done to see that MNK's Martial Arts isn't the same? Unless because it's a direct reduction (not percentage) so it's doesn't apply? I just play MNK on my alt, don't hate me irl. D:
Asura.Yunalaysca said:
ya currently it's impossible to reach haste cap on dnc without outside buffs
This was my impression also! Which is why I responded to what you said :p sorry about misunderstanding!
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Asura.Yunalaysca said:
ya currently it's impossible to reach haste cap on dnc without outside buffs
This was my impression also! Which is why I responded to what you said :p sorry about misunderstanding!
So if I'm sitting on DW+40% and Haste+22% in gear with 10% HSamba, (if I'm doing the calulation right) what I'd get atm is this?:
401 x .2 = 80.2 (max cap)
---
401 x .6 = 240.6
240.6 x .68 = 163.6 (my delay)
---
240.6 x .33 = 80.2 (haste to cap)
So id still need a total of +67% haste (+35% more) to hit cap? Can someone double check the math for me? That seems like not that big a deal at least in terms of having to change up my DD sets because of loldelaycap. I usually end up w/ just Haste on me so I'd still be a good +20% away from capping out.
EDIT: Forget Para+1 has 211 delay not 201 (391 vs 401)
Also did calculation on single-wielding Para+1 just for shiggles
211 x .68 = 143.5
Doubt I'll sac my DEX Kila+1 just to save .33secs but
401 x .2 = 80.2 (max cap)
---
401 x .6 = 240.6
240.6 x .68 = 163.6 (my delay)
---
240.6 x .33 = 80.2 (haste to cap)
So id still need a total of +67% haste (+35% more) to hit cap? Can someone double check the math for me? That seems like not that big a deal at least in terms of having to change up my DD sets because of loldelaycap. I usually end up w/ just Haste on me so I'd still be a good +20% away from capping out.
EDIT: Forget Para+1 has 211 delay not 201 (391 vs 401)
Also did calculation on single-wielding Para+1 just for shiggles
211 x .68 = 143.5
Doubt I'll sac my DEX Kila+1 just to save .33secs but
Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
The only use of DNC is haste samba, and the above showed that it fails to achieve it's purpose except for 5% haste which amounts for less than 20% of damage increase ; this is because a mnk with delay +51 weapon only requires 8% more haste to cap and nin/thf/mnk are likely to get more martial arts/DW traits next VU (probably only 5% away from cap).
edit : from cream soda, what I claim since forever
back to : real jobs.
edit : from cream soda, what I claim since forever
Quote:
With hasso jobs getting to 78% haste and the new news on DW jobs, this makes dnc pretty much worthless across the board when it comes to zerging.
back to : real jobs.
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Just ignore Pchan. It's for the best.
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Cerberus.Vaness said:
My DNC does more DMG then most stupid DD in abyssea <.< Dont see how its use only for haste samba.Also a nice help for healers.WTF you talking about nub
Ok so your DNC does more DMG than a "stupid DD". Gotcha, it doesn't help your cause though. Actually no, you said more dmg than "most stupid dd", meaning there are some stupid dd that manage to beat you. Hmm...
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Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
Cerberus.Vaness said:
My DNC does more DMG then most stupid DD in abyssea <.< Dont see how its use only for haste samba.Also a nice help for healers.WTF you talking about nub
Ok so your DNC does more DMG than a "stupid DD". Gotcha, it doesn't help your cause though. Actually no, you said more dmg than "most stupid dd", meaning there are some stupid dd that manage to beat you. Hmm...
But yeah, I will listen to raenryong and ignore you, caus obviously, you dont know wtf you are talking about.
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Quote:
Ok, 80% max delay reduction from all sources. Impacts:
10% DW (innate thf, blu)
Max usable haste: 78%
15% DW (any /nin)
Max usable haste: 76.5%
20% DW (/nin + suppa)
Max usable haste: 75%
30% DW (dnc)
Max usable haste: 71.5%
35% DW (nin, dnc+suppa)
Max usable haste: 69.5%
40% DW (nin+suppa, dnc+suppa+auric)
Max usable haste: 66.5%
45% DW (nin+suppa+AF body, dnc+suppa+auric+charis neck)
Max usable haste: 63.5%
50% DW (nin+suppa+AF body+Iga head)
Max usable haste: 60%
55% DW (nin+suppa+AF body+Iga head+Koga pants)
Max usable haste: 55.5%
Capped gear haste + Haste gives 40%. Double Marches pushes that to 62% (just past the cap for 50% DW nin).
Capped gear + Haste + Haste Samba gives 50%. Double Marches pushes that to 72% (capped for dnc with no DW gear).
Since external buffs can be considered static for a given setup, it's actually gear that needs to be adjusted to match that.
Given Haste + 2x March, you're generally good up to capped gear haste and 50% DW. So, no real limitations before you add in Haste Samba.
Given Haste + 2x March + Haste Samba, you can use 20% gear haste + 40% DW, 23% gear haste + 35% DW, or 25% gear haste + 30% DW.
For dnc, full Charis +2 gives 15% haste. Add Goading Belt to hit 20% and you can pick 2 out of 3 among: Suppa, Charis Necklace and Auric Dagger.
If using Swift + Rapp + Aurore hands to reach 25% haste then you don't want any additional DW gear.
For nin getting Haste Samba and the other buffs, they cap with 23% gear haste and no DW gear. Adding just Suppa means they cap at 20% gear haste (and they get 17% with the current Iga +2).
Using this for DNC TP gear
Does that mean I have too much haste somewhere?And also, maybe I read wrong but seems ppl are saying that dual wield makes you get less TP or something.I wanna know if I can stop camp V.belt and stupid khalamari I'm like 0/45 atm <.< stupid neck >.<
You might still want those pieces Vaness. If you care enough they are just going to be situational.
When you get 25% haste on equip and 45% dw, you still need 38.5% haste to cap. If you are getting either 2x marches or haste spell, haste samba will still be increasing your performance. When getting both haste sources, haste samba won't do anything. You will have to think about other ways to increase performance then, and there are many answers to this question: ask the brd for a different song, swap sambas, swap dw pieces for something else; they are all valid given a right situation.
Btw guys, unless you are a mnk, you don't need to factor the weapons delay on your calculation. (1-dw)x(1-haste) has to be equal to 0.2. A mnk needs to factor weapon delay cause martial arts is a straight reduction, and it's % reduction can only be known taking weapon equipped into consideration.
When you get 25% haste on equip and 45% dw, you still need 38.5% haste to cap. If you are getting either 2x marches or haste spell, haste samba will still be increasing your performance. When getting both haste sources, haste samba won't do anything. You will have to think about other ways to increase performance then, and there are many answers to this question: ask the brd for a different song, swap sambas, swap dw pieces for something else; they are all valid given a right situation.
Btw guys, unless you are a mnk, you don't need to factor the weapons delay on your calculation. (1-dw)x(1-haste) has to be equal to 0.2. A mnk needs to factor weapon delay cause martial arts is a straight reduction, and it's % reduction can only be known taking weapon equipped into consideration.
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What is stupid is that dnc now can DD / cure 900~ dmg and tank with ease.
others DD are not stupid, just what you think about them is.
others DD are not stupid, just what you think about them is.
Cerberus.Vaness said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Quote:
Ok, 80% max delay reduction from all sources. Impacts:
10% DW (innate thf, blu)
Max usable haste: 78%
15% DW (any /nin)
Max usable haste: 76.5%
20% DW (/nin + suppa)
Max usable haste: 75%
30% DW (dnc)
Max usable haste: 71.5%
35% DW (nin, dnc+suppa)
Max usable haste: 69.5%
40% DW (nin+suppa, dnc+suppa+auric)
Max usable haste: 66.5%
45% DW (nin+suppa+AF body, dnc+suppa+auric+charis neck)
Max usable haste: 63.5%
50% DW (nin+suppa+AF body+Iga head)
Max usable haste: 60%
55% DW (nin+suppa+AF body+Iga head+Koga pants)
Max usable haste: 55.5%
Capped gear haste + Haste gives 40%. Double Marches pushes that to 62% (just past the cap for 50% DW nin).
Capped gear + Haste + Haste Samba gives 50%. Double Marches pushes that to 72% (capped for dnc with no DW gear).
Since external buffs can be considered static for a given setup, it's actually gear that needs to be adjusted to match that.
Given Haste + 2x March, you're generally good up to capped gear haste and 50% DW. So, no real limitations before you add in Haste Samba.
Given Haste + 2x March + Haste Samba, you can use 20% gear haste + 40% DW, 23% gear haste + 35% DW, or 25% gear haste + 30% DW.
For dnc, full Charis +2 gives 15% haste. Add Goading Belt to hit 20% and you can pick 2 out of 3 among: Suppa, Charis Necklace and Auric Dagger.
If using Swift + Rapp + Aurore hands to reach 25% haste then you don't want any additional DW gear.
For nin getting Haste Samba and the other buffs, they cap with 23% gear haste and no DW gear. Adding just Suppa means they cap at 20% gear haste (and they get 17% with the current Iga +2).
Using this for DNC TP gear
Does that mean I have too much haste somewhere?And also, maybe I read wrong but seems ppl are saying that dual wield makes you get less TP or something.I wanna know if I can stop camp V.belt and stupid khalamari I'm like 0/45 atm <.< stupid neck >.<
Here's where you stand:
1) Assuming Haste Samba Only
Base Delay (Auric Delay + Joyeuse Delay): 425 Base Delay
Haste (22% in gear and 10% from Haste Samba): 32%
Dual Wield (30% from traits and 10% from Auric + Suppa): 40%
First, let's calculate the delay reduction from Haste:
425 (Base Delay) * 0.68 (which is 1 - 0.32 [32% Haste]) = 289 Delay after Haste
Next, let's take into account the delay reduction from Dual Wield:
289 (Base Delay after Haste factored in) * 0.6 (which is 1 - 0.4 [40% Dual Wield]) = 173.4 Delay after Haste and Dual Wield are factored in.
With Auric and Joyeuse, here's your minimum delay:
425 (Auric + Joyeuse Delay) * 0.2 (1 - 0.8 [maximum possible delay reduction]) = 85
Your delay without external buffs (only gear haste and Haste Samba) is 173.4. Your minimum delay is 85. You'd still benefit from a Charis Necklace when playing solo or in parties without Haste spell and double Marches.
2) Now, let's factor in external Haste buffs.
425 (Base Delay) * 0.33 (which is 1 - 0.67 [22% gear Haste, 10% Haste Samba, 15% Haste Spell, 20% Marches]} = 140.25 Delay after Haste
140.25 (Delay after Haste) * 0.6 (which is 1 - 0.4 [40% Dual Wield]} = 84.15 Delay after Haste and Dual Wield.
(I realize my value for double March isn't exact and that it's too low. This is quick and dirty.)
With full external Haste buffs (Haste spell and two Marches in addition to Haste Samba), your delay would be 84.15. This is just below your minimum delay of 85. If you routinely run with a BRD and someone who reliably hastes you, then no, you don't need a Charis Necklace for party play.
Someone please please please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just now learning FFXI math myself. The "plug and chug" part of the calculations is very easy, but I still have a tendency to get the formulas and variables wrong.
So basically all i've grasped from this thread so far is "situational ***is MORE situational" lol.
If I'm not hitting haste cap with just the spell+samba, its not gonna change the game that much for me as I already carry like 6 gear sets with me on DNC anyway. Oh no i have to write a new windower script, God save me from the dreaded Copy+Paste!! =P
If I'm not hitting haste cap with just the spell+samba, its not gonna change the game that much for me as I already carry like 6 gear sets with me on DNC anyway. Oh no i have to write a new windower script, God save me from the dreaded Copy+Paste!! =P
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