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If FFXIV fails... what does that mean for FFXI?
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-06-09 12:29:16
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »F2P > Sub though.
What is XIV going to bring to the table that any F2P MMO can't? I'd argue storyline and the brand itself but typical MMO players could care less about such things.
Pretty much nothing from what I have seen. Its not going to be worth subbing for at least a year or two.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-06-09 12:31:43
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'm also totally OK with male characters being sexualized for the sake of fairness. If balloon *** is gonna be the tank, barrel thighs 6pack meathead can be my healer. Swim wear
His shirt says dry, but his eyes look ready to cry at the sight.
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Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-06-09 12:36:10
It's kinda amusing that XI has survived as long as it has because the game was catered to a hardcore audience bound together in collective misery.
Casual games draw more people but with the subscription method of collecting money they are more likely to jump ship faster. SE should be milking these people for ingame items while they play for a short while rather than assuming they'll stick around for years on end like many of us did w/XI.
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-09 12:36:23
I'm not really an uptight *** that thinks sexuality is a bad thing, so I don't think things like swimwear being in the game and looking sexy is a problem, but at least that makes sense.
I just think it looks dumb when a character is wearing a suit of heavy armor and it protects everything aside from their butt, thighs and boobs. It's not really a problem of "realism" as in it doesn't match the world we live in, but rather "realism" in that it's designed in a way that contradicts its intended function (armor's created to protect you...)
I think if you want to do something like that, go all in and make it really obviously over-the-top, like Dragon's Crown. Now I should probably reel my nerdiness a bit in.
Asura.Ina
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-06-09 12:40:02
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm not really an uptight *** that thinks sexuality is a bad thing, so I don't think things like swimwear being in the game and looking sexy is a problem, but at least that makes sense.
I just think it looks dumb when a character is wearing a suit of heavy armor and it protects everything aside from their butt, thighs and boobs. It's not really a problem of "realism" as in it doesn't match the world we live in, but rather "realism" in that it's designed in a way that contradicts its intended function (armor's created to protect you...)
I think if you want to do something like that, go all in and make it really obviously over-the-top, like Dragon's Crown. Now I should probably reel my nerdiness a bit in. I liked how drg afk left the belly bare on females... Lets cover all but one of the most painful places to take a stab.
I don't truly care either, it's just a fun point to laugh at.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-06-09 12:41:08
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm not really an uptight *** that thinks sexuality is a bad thing, so I don't think things like swimwear being in the game and looking sexy is a problem, but at least that makes sense.
I just think it looks dumb when a character is wearing a suit of heavy armor and it protects everything aside from their butt, thighs and boobs. It's not really a problem of "realism" as in it doesn't match the world we live in, but rather "realism" in that it's designed in a way that contradicts its intended function (armor's created to protect you...)
I think if you want to do something like that, go all in and make it really obviously over-the-top, like Dragon's Crown. Now I should probably reel my nerdiness a bit in.
Oh! You mean like with Dragoon AF armor in FF14? Where the female's midriff is completely exposed? Yeah, that's *** stupid.
EDIT:
Dur hur perfect design.
By Kyri 2013-06-09 12:43:34
I love love LOVE the outfits I have in XIV ^^ such a breath of fresh air from how tacky I looked in XI ((before empy) :P
Before:
After:
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-09 12:45:08
Well, part of the problem was that in XI you couldn't lock the look of your character so you end up wearing a clownsuit in order to be functional in battle. I haven't kept up on every detail of XIV so I dunno if they've decided to add in a function like that. I know the game has armor dyes but dunno if you can lock your appearance or anything.
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-06-09 12:45:20
Art has always been a medium for sexualizing the human (and non-human) body structure. MMOs are no different and sex sells. Most people double-take a game when there is an attractive avatar slinging a spell or wielding a sword. It's like a wet dream for the demographic and that may be literal depending on age.
The main issue is that the developers are usually men and surprise, surprise these men like designing sexy, attractive women for their video games.
If we're gonna cry "BUT REALISM!":
Why doesn't armor get dirty/tear?
Why does my character not need to eat/drink and ***in order to stay alive?
Why don't we have more durability costs?
Why was WAR AF1 a battle bikini?
Why does my character not light on fire after a fire/thunder spell? Why does my character not catch diseases?
Why do monsters have money on them?
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Bahamut.Mizuharu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-06-09 12:45:41
I love love LOVE the outfits I have in XIV ^^ such a breath of fresh air from how tacky I looked in XI ((before empy) :P
Before:
After:
Yeah, we keep bitching about this but truth be told, the vanity system would take care of this anyway lol.
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-09 12:47:34
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Why do monsters have money on them? Hey, they need to make a living too!
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-06-09 12:47:50
Just for that nostalgia.
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Asura.Ina
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-06-09 12:49:33
Leviathan.Kincard said: »Well, part of the problem was that in XI you couldn't lock the look of your character so you end up wearing a clownsuit in order to be functional in battle. I haven't kept up on every detail of XIV so I dunno if they've decided to add in a function like that. I know the game has armor dyes but dunno if you can lock your appearance or anything. They are adding a vanity system at some point but there are no real details I know of beyond that it will exist.
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-09 12:49:36
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »If we're gonna cry "BUT REALISM!":
Why doesn't armor get dirty/tear?
Why does my character not need to eat/drink and ***in order to stay alive?
Why don't we have more durability costs?
Why was WAR AF1 a battle bikini?
Why does my character not light on fire after a fire/thunder spell? Why does my character not catch diseases?
Why do monsters have money on them?
Personally I think there's a really big difference between realism as in if it follows all the rules of the real world and realism as in does it follow logic. After all, that's how we judge a lot of fiction. Otherwise, any time you run into something that doesn't make sense you can hand-wave it with "it's just a game/book/movie/etc".
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Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2013-06-09 12:49:39
Leviathan.Kincard said: »Well, part of the problem was that in XI you couldn't lock the look of your character so you end up wearing a clownsuit in order to be functional in battle. I haven't kept up on every detail of XIV so I dunno if they've decided to add in a function like that. I know the game has armor dyes but dunno if you can lock your appearance or anything.
There will be "Vanity Options" so you can lock your look (to an extent: obviously mages can't lock their look into being heavy armor).
By Kyri 2013-06-09 12:50:07
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Why do monsters have money on them? Hey, they need to make a living too!
YouTube Video Placeholder
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-06-09 12:54:40
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »If we're gonna cry "BUT REALISM!":
Why doesn't armor get dirty/tear?
Why does my character not need to eat/drink and ***in order to stay alive?
Why don't we have more durability costs?
Why was WAR AF1 a battle bikini?
Why does my character not light on fire after a fire/thunder spell?
Why does my character not catch diseases?
Why do monsters have money on them?
Armor in FF14 becomes damaged over time and must be repaired for it to function. Otherwise 0% condition weapons hit for 0, armor doesn't grant bonus stats, etc. And, when you do eat/drink, your performance is enhanced. So while it's not really realistic, it's beneficial.
WAR AF comment applies to XI in which case, idfk. lol... I know Flare had a chance to inflict Burn status on a target. And Thundara had a chance to stun. Diseases I think apply to Virus and Plague. And only Beastmen drop gil (in 14) or coffers at the end of a primal fight (can assume that the gold was offered as a tribute from the beastmen to their god.)
Bismarck.Aselin
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Bismarck.Aselin 2013-06-09 12:55:52
Honest question but how many subscribers would be the minimum to consider the game not a failure?
That really depends from company to company. In one thread on the Nexon Forums (Mabinogi, Vindictus, Dragon Nest), someone posted Nexon's costs to just run the servers that came from one of their year-end reports. It amounted to around $1 million US per month for servers alone. But, to MMOs, servers and server costs are just one part of the equation outside of taxes.
Let's say it costs an even $1 million a month to operate FFXI or FFXIV servers. Add the costs of development and maintenance that includes developers, artists, directors, etc. and put a price of maybe a round number of $5 million a month for that to pay for their salaries, tools, etc. (Of course, these are numbers I'm pulling out of my ***, but putting it up here for the sake of explanation.) That amounts to around $6 million a month to keep the servers running, the people maintaining the servers, and the people providing bug fixes, updates, additional content, and work for future expansions.
At $12.95 a month for one character for FFXIV or FFXI, at $6 million a month Square-Enix would need at least 464,000 players (rounding up by a lot) in one month to break even on costs. They would be profitable once they exceed that number.
This is also not factoring the time and costs the game, FFXIV, has been offline in the transition from v1.0 to v2.0 ARR. And, it does not factor in the development costs to revamp it from the ground up. So, SE will most likely be in the red for the first quarter for FFXIV. They would need to be break even by at least second quarter of the year after ARR's release. And, they should or need to be profitable in the next two quarters after that.
However, they need just under half a million players paying the subscription fee within the first three months.
Other numbers: Code At $1 mil. server costs + $5 mil. other costs: $6 million a month
464,000 players needed in one month.
At $1 mil. server costs + $3 mil. other costs: $4 million a month
309,000 players needed in one month.
At $1 mil. server costs + $2 mil. other costs: $3 million a month
232,000 players needed in one month.
Doable?
That really depends on the kind of players that are willing to pay for a subscription fee model in an MMO that's sitting back-to-back with other MMOs (EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI) surrounded by a gang of F2P MMO games. As someone said above my post, people are truly tired of the World of Warcraft mechanic that has plagued and flooded a lot of these MMOs. Having Square-Enix shift FFXIV's mechanics closer and closer to a WoW-model of gameplay is not going to help their cause. We already have a deluge of WoW clones out there: TERA, RIFT, Allods Online, etc. And, then there are the multitide of F2P games from [South] Korea and Japan. People will be trying the game out for the first month or two, then hop to another looking for the "next big thing" in MMOs. If they've done it already in an MMO, then they will most likely not be staying for a year or more especially if they have to pay a monthly fee for it.
For FFXIV to succeed and even get that initial half a million players, is to set itself apart from the other WoW-like games out there. Make it fun, make it enjoyable and give a reason why I, as a player, should pay the monthly fee to keep playing. And, that is a difficult thing to do for any company especially when they're surrounded by F2P games on the MMO market and World of Warcraft itself. The job system and its story are what sets FFXI apart, and hopefully FFXIV, from other MMORPGs right now. But, will it be enough to attract players and let them stay month-to-month in the years to come.
That's why I see more promise coming out of Everquest 2 and ArcheAge than FFXIV ARR right now. Move too close to World of Warcraft, or try to emulate it, you need something else outside of being a WoW-like clone to keep your players coming (and paying). Most MMOs either fail or succeed at doing that, or have shifted entirely to an F2P model-- SWTOR, TERA, and RIFT are good examples. Everquest 2 from what I've read so far is going to be a sandbox MMO, and given its name, is more than likely going to succeed given how Everquest 1 pretty much defined MMOs pre-World of Warcraft. ArcheAge is even showing a lot of promise with its own sandbox model and is giving players a lot of options to do in the game outside of grinding for EXP and gear. These are the two MMOs to look for, besides Project Titan, in the years to come after FFXIV ARR's release, and will be the hardest things to compete against in an MMO market.
By Kyri 2013-06-09 12:57:57
WAR AF comment applies to XI in which case, idfk. lol... I know Flare had a chance to inflict Burn status on a target. And Thundara had a chance to stun. Diseases I think apply to Virus and Plague. And only Beastmen drop gil (in 14) or coffers at the end of a primal fight (can assume that the gold was offered as a tribute from the beastmen to their god.) Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Just for that nostalgia.
war in XIV:
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2013-06-09 14:46:38
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Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2013-06-09 14:51:36
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »Need Samurai on 14 ASAP.
I wish.
Ragnarok.Zohnax
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-06-09 14:52:57
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »Need Samurai on 14 ASAP. I believe it's lined-up for an expansion along with NIN and DRK.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2013-06-09 14:59:08
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »Need Samurai on 14 ASAP. I believe it's lined-up for an expansion along with NIN and DRK.
They said most likely to nin, nothing quite definitive on sam or drk though :(. Not that I can remember anyways, though they said a "Great Sword" type weapon would be if/when they implement sam, and not drk specifically.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2013-06-09 15:03:35
If SE Fails I hope disney buys them out...
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Quetzalcoatl.Puzzykat
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1
By Quetzalcoatl.Puzzykat 2013-06-09 15:10:35
Looking through this topic I saw this old, old post and just wanted to point out... To anyone who ever thought that worldmap was anything besides fanmade, wishful thinking; the western continent doesn't have any area on it that resembles the Adoulin region map at all. :3
By Kimble2013 2013-06-09 15:14:18
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »If SE Fails I hope disney buys them out...
Why would Disney buy them out? They already gave Star Wars to EA.
By Enuyasha 2013-06-09 15:14:36
Quetzalcoatl.Puzzykat said: »
Looking through this topic I saw this old, old post and just wanted to point out... To anyone who ever thought that worldmap was anything besides fanmade, wishful thinking; the western continent doesn't have any area on it that resembles the Adoulin region map at all. :3 it's pretty close, maybe SE went on a trollin' spree and based ulbuka off that map :<
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-09 15:14:41
The deisng is imaginary, the locations and their positions are based on game lore and are correct.
Bismarck.Aselin
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Bismarck.Aselin 2013-06-09 17:51:26
Quetzalcoatl.Puzzykat said: »Looking through this topic I saw this old, old post and just wanted to point out... To anyone who ever thought that worldmap was anything besides fanmade, wishful thinking; the western continent doesn't have any area on it that resembles the Adoulin region map at all. :3 It's funny how that map gets brought up from time to time in topics like these. It's also very outdated as I made it way back in 2007 (if going by the PSD file). I also imagined a much different Ulbuka continent (Far West) back then as well. A lot of corrections have to be made as well.
But, if you look at it, and if going by the lore of the game, there's still quite a lot of things that can be added to FFXI in future expansions. I half-expected SE to only release a portion of the Ulbuka continent because it's much bigger than what Adoulin covers just by going by the lore so far.
A lot of stories and mysteries to be uncovered in future expansions if FFXI even continues, or SE allows it to continue.
For example... (SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE NOT PROGRESSED THROUGH CERTAIN QUESTS/MISSIONS IN FFXI!)... How has the Far East Empire fared post-Chains of Promathia? How is the situation since the Emptiness seeped into their country?
... How is the situation between the Near East (Aht Urghan) Empire and the Far East Empire given the rise and increased use of Mercenaries? Will your loyalty (and friendship) with Empress Nashmeira (aka Aphmau) remain if you venture into the Far East and help them?
... How is the situation in Tsahya on the continent of Olzhirya? You have to realize that they are getting aid from Aht Urghan and at the same time are in continuous conflict with the Great Southern Empire.
... How is the Great Southern Empire faring nowadays since they are a hodge-podge of city states? Vana'diel Tribune mentioned of not only conflict with Olzhirya but conflict from within. Civil war brewing?
... What other mysteries lie on the continent of Ulbuka? Seekers of Adoulin only covers a fraction of the continent. The farther north we go and we may meet the people behind the Totem Pole and Bison Jacket armor sets. Also, the origin of the exorcists.
... Rune Fencer's origin lies on the continent of Rhazowa. Also, what is Ragnarok that was mentioned in one of the text from Wings of the Goddess quest or mission? The Far North also has the origins of the Orcs and Gigas, as well as any remaining (if still alive) Elvaan settlements before they came to the San d'Orian regions. So there are a lot of questions still remaining to be answered and a lot of new discoveries to be made. It's in large part Square-Enix's fault for opening up these possibilities because of the now-defunct Vana'diel Tribune as well as the quests and missions providing tidbits of background info on other areas we have not seen yet.
The next expansion pack should at the very least uncover the rest of the Ulbuka continent. It's why I made it large on that map above for a reason. We have jungle-like environment to the south but the more north you go the more forested and colder it'll be by my estimates.
I'd love to see the rest of Vana'diel, but I've been playing this for seven years already. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be playing this MMO, then again there are people much older than me playing this game. I hope SE releases the next expansions in a timely manner. CCP Games manages a yearly release cycle with each expansion. Odyssey was just recently released. I'd like to SE to follow a similar path with expansions and make them larger as well.
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-09 19:18:13
I'm not sure if Tenzen's nation and the yagudo shogunate with wich the empire is at war are the same thing, I believe it's two different states in the far east.
Also, Lekho in a mission mentions the mithra queen calling her evil and plotting who knows what...wish we knew more!
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I'm genuinely curious what you guys think it will do to FFXI if FFXIV fails, which a lot of people are currently assuming it will. (This thread isn't about if ffxiv will fail or not, its only theoretical in the case it does).
I literally have no input because I have no idea what it would mean. Of course, FFXIV was taking resources from SE which is probably why we haven't seen a full blown FFXI expansion in a long time. That being said, if FFXIV fails do you think it will be GOOD for ffxi? Have no impact? Be bad for FFXI since SE just took a huge financial blow?
What do you guys think?
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