Lower TP Return @ 85 (Footwork)?

You must understand if you do taipan fang+1 now you will complete them very fast IF there is a good sized alliance for each trial you will complete them in about 10-20 elemental firedays. ursine take alot longer and generally dont always have an ally for the trials. As firesday is the str and attack paths for all weapons i believe, this is a good weapon to get done fast if you start soon its popularity may die off in a month or two.

I know how the str trials work. I've done one for GAxe and Sword. Even still, I don't know if I care to do it again. I'll wait to see if someone does the ones I mentioned a bit ago, and then decide if I want to even both with another H2H.

Yeah I know Tiger, I've just been lazy.
For some reason I really never could stand elemental path trials.
Sure they updated it with the 1kill = 5credit thing, but as far as I know that works only if you kill during weather, not during day. And that's really something I hate. Being able/forced to kill only during weather/day is something that frustrates me beyond imagination. And it's bad because there are several things I would have liked done. MAB/MACC weapon for PUP, DEX katana for NIN, STR GKT for SAM, -PDT for MNK, etc etc.
I dunno, for now I'll stand and watch. Maybe Barracuda+1 will become decent with next patch? That's a trial you can do somehow quick, a few days of work.
Or maybe I'll just give up with Verethragna, which I probably will, and accept the Revenant Fist+1 compromise.

"- An issue wherein the job trait "Martial Arts" becomes active when the job ability "Footwork" is used has been addressed."

And then everything was better again?

ITS FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it works! Back to 480 delay <3

Not really. Still going to wait for Kine to math this out. They'll be better than they were yesterday, that's for sure, but topping h2h again, not really going to bet on that.

Why?

both h2h and footwork gained 3-4 DMG this update (depending on whether or not you had faith torque). That 3-4 dmg helps h2h more than footwork.

The lower your DMG is the more of a % increase you get from adding more. The higher base DMG gets less of a % increase.

Then you have Tapian fangs+1. Tapian fangs gained an additional 4 DMG. Ursine claws got less delay, which does nothing for footwork.

Then we have martial arts. h2h still got this trait and gets a relative increase in dmg in that sense as well.

Seeing how footwork was only 5% ahead to begin with, while It'll gain damage going back to a 7-hit instead of an 8-hit, not really sure it'll top the tapian fangs+1 line of h2h.


Also, even if it does, you'll still want tapian+1 if you have a cor in your party. Chaos/fighter's roll is generally the best DD combo. Ursine is already at 70-75% DA rate, which means it's not going to benefit nearly as much as h2h from the roll and nobody is going to change the pt buffs for 1 member (and yes, fighter's roll is generally better than samurai roll for everyone else).

So, after it's mathed out, if Ursine are still ahead, you'll still want Tapian+1 anytime you have a corsair.

K, kine redid the work, accounting for DoT and average ws dmg, using
Target mob:
Level 92
Defense: 400 (360 w/Dia II)
Vit: 82
Evasion: 390
Agi: 77

as his base data

After update, using high end gear for both Melee and footwork

I'm going w/ Fire tapians for now, as I think he hit fstr cap on this, not getting the full benefit of the wep, plus I'm already most of the way done w/ it. Mya go back for the defense minus ones at a later time

For footwork

Before today's maintenance, footwork ursine was at 151, so it picked up 3.25% dmg after going back to 480 delay, but is still comes up short of h2h.


Footwork will probably make it's return w/ full af3 (provided it even works w/ 3/5 and doesn't make you wait until they release the other 2 pieces), but as for poise shoes footwork, they're done.

Am I reading that wrong, or does it say that using no hand-to-hand weapon is better than using afflictors, destroyers, spharai (75), shenlong, and barracudas?

His baseline was Tapian fangs w/ no DD stats on them (so let's say you got the eva ones, only relevant stats are dmg 26 and the delay on them)

Gotcha.

Hmm, Kine's data is really well done and reliable (wonder why he didn't take Glanzfaust into account? And I doubt he has been able to calculate the relevance of Verethragna Aftermath), altough Theorycrafting is something that should always be taken in a smart way, as it of course works in ideal situations and sometimes doesn't take into account several other practical aspects that do occur when you play in a real environment (altough usually these aspects have very small influence over the final % value)

I have no means to say the data he posted is not correct and I do honestly believe he's right, but I'm having some troubles in believing what you said in your previous post Tiger, where you wrote that @80 FW build was "only" 5% above h2h build. Which h2h build exactely, I wonder? Because from the real parses I've been able to experience (both my own and other people's) I'd dare to say the difference was definitely greater than 5%. I've seen people pulling over Apocalypse and Runechopper builds @80, whereas you couldn't really get 5% close to that with h2h back then.

Also, one important difference to take into consideration imho is that you're not going to use the same identical gear/setup with FW builds and h2h builds, your stats are going to be different, so you can't do theorycrafting considering only the weapon stats, and putting everything else on the same level.
For instance, when I compare h2h vs FW, I have in mind a Full Usu MNK/WAR vs a FW geared MNK/SAM.
Berserk has its uptime and pros, and FW has Sekkanoki, sTP and Meditate.
h2h build is probably going to be around 70% melee 30% WS, and FW is going to be around 50% both (if not more damage on WS in some circumstances).
h2h is gonna have 25% haste, FW is gonna have 26%.
FW is going to get close to the DEX/crit tiers, h2h will be behind.
It's the same when you talk about the impact of buffs, for example Fighter's. Which indeed has a much lower importance for FW while TPing, but it works greatly during WS, whereas for h2h builds it's the opposite (it has absolutely 0 relevance on WS)
All these differences and many more have to be taken into consideration, imho.

While I can accept and understand how several h2h options are now superior to FW build, even after the 480 delay fix, I'm really reluctant to believe the differences between h2h build (with an "average" weapon) and FW build was "only" 5% at 80.