Ban On Gay Marriage Struck Down

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Ban on Gay Marriage Struck Down
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-08-07 17:42:51
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Gilgamesh.Mytoy said:
The "majority of California" that you're talking about was only 52%.
olawd.
 Cerberus.Ethics
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By Cerberus.Ethics 2010-08-07 17:52:02
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Still have yet to hear an argument not regarding religious morality. If you're going to argue on subjective morality (or other forms of), than you can validate any sort of hate/thought(s).
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By Saiii 2010-08-07 18:08:16
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Cerberus.Ethics said:
Still have yet to hear an argument not regarding religious morality. If you're going to argue on subjective morality (or other forms of), than you can validate any sort of hate/thought(s).

This is true, but do we not already have many laws in different parts of the country in which "morality" is leading argument?

Prostitution, Gambling, Prohibition are a couple of examples.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement but there is a set precedent to work against.

These are legal in some places yet illegal in others, it would seem that the "morality" of each would be the argument against them being legal in all places.
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By Saiii 2010-08-07 18:12:36
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Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Saiii said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Saiii said:
Cerberus.Ethics said:
Ramuh.Ilvex said:
Saiii said:
Cerberus.Ethics said:
I've yet to hear a valid argument (in general) not based on religion. If there is one, I'd like to hear it.

Easy.

Some people find homosexuality to be immoral.

For the state to sanction homosexuality is the equivalent of the state supporting the lifestyle as a moral lifestyle.

People don't want the state to support what they see as immoral.

Using existing laws as a basis, people feel like morality can be legislated.

Even if you don't agree, this can be viewed as a valid argument.


But those people you are talking about find Homosexuality immoral because of religion.

^^^^^^^^^^^

On what grounds is it immoral? Ilvex pointed it out, but just wanted to echo his bravo if you will.

Morality is an opinion of the individual. Something can be considered immoral by simply deciding it is immoral.
You can say on the flipside that disallowing homosexuals to marry, disrespecting/hating homosexuals could be seen as immoral as well.
there are always two sides of a coin with this.

if you think homosexual and automatically think of two guys having sex, you obviously aren't mature enough to make a valid decision in any case.
morality is subjective.
our government is there to dictate what the society as a whole deems as moral and immoral.
just because a group of individuals as a minority don't like something that they typically never see or deal with outside of the boob tube doesn't make their decision more valuable than a state senator, judge, or legislature in general.
most people against homosexuals are armchair warriors who can't make a valid argument outside of the "relgieon sez itz r bad so i say it ar bad...two guys kissing ewww"

essentially individuals like this don't have much of a grasp on reality, hence their belief system and values.

In the California case was it not a majority that voted it down in the first place?

I would also be hesitant to claim someone doesn't have a "grasp on reality" simply because they have a different opinion on a particular subject than you do.

If someone doesn't have a grasp on reality wouldn't that mean they are mislead on all subjects? Would that mean that if you agree with them on anything that you also would lack a grasp on reality?

So California precedes over the US Government now? ICIC.
The ban was taken down on the federal level.
not the state level.
Just because it was voted by a "majority" in California doesn't mean that it would be voted for by a "majority" in the rest of the country, or the rest of the world on that matter.
take only one phrase i stated at the end and make it your whole argument right?
pfft.
i said: most people against homosexuals are armchair warriors who can't make a valid argument outside of the "relgieon sez itz r bad so i say it ar bad...two guys kissing ewww"

essentially individuals like this don't have much of a grasp on reality, hence their belief system and values.

people who hate homosexuals just due to the fact that they can only come up with the mental image of two guys *** don't really have much of a grasp on reality.

strawman more.

also, can I hear your actual opinion on this?
because it seems like you are just pointing fingers and trying to stir up ***.
i don't want to hear a "valid argument" i would like to hear your opinion on the whole situation.
might not reply to your next one, so if it's buried I won't if it's still relevant to the current conversation I will continue.
got a bday party to attend to and such.

Personally I don't really care either way. I'm not gay so the ruling doesn't affect my personal choices.

I am in favor of each state being able to set its own rules regarding the subject and the fed staying out of it. Put it to the people of each state to decide what they determine as moral.

NB4 (Majority limiting the rights of the minority and its the feds job to protect it etc). I know that my thoughts would have some holes to work out along with some disagreements on rights themselves, but its just my opinion.
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By Saiii 2010-08-07 18:14:10
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Gilgamesh.Mytoy said:
Those against the ban were 47, almost 48%.

It was pretty close.

True, but a majority nonetheless. The president is usually chosen by a closer percentage, and that has far more implications on a much wider array of subjects.
 Cerberus.Ethics
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By Cerberus.Ethics 2010-08-07 18:17:28
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Saiii said:
This is true, but do we not already have many laws in different parts of the country in which "morality" is leading argument?

Prostitution, Gambling, Prohibition are a couple of examples.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement but there is a set precedent to work against.

These are legal in some places yet illegal in others, it would seem that the "morality" of each would be the argument against them being legal in all places.

Well something being illegal and saying it's wrong due to that is just circular logic. Aside from that, just because we have laws against things, does not make them correct. Shitting on peoples civil rights because we don't personally feel something is ok, doesn't mean it's not ok. We've done that for years and had to (still are) embarrassingly fight(ing) for civil rights. If we're going to make it illegal, I want a reason. I've never heard one worth entertaining.

I want to see an argument for why gay marriage is wrong to begin with. Why should it be illegal?
 
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By 2010-08-07 18:36:05
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 Bahamut.Shaj
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By Bahamut.Shaj 2010-08-07 18:38:45
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Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Shaj said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
Bahamut.Shaj said:
Bahamut.Shaj said:
Fairy.Haxorking said:
In all honesty, I believe "Marriage" shouldn't exist at all in the context that it does now. Currently, marriage is a relationship or bond which is recognized by law in the form of a legal contract. The fact that it's a legal contract (And nothing more) degrades the so called good values it's supposed to uphold. The government really has no right to be involved with relationships to begin with, a relationship should be a bond between two people, not two people and the government. It would be better if they abolished marriage all together and let people handle the bonding

Agree, gay men should just *** whoever whatever they want and gtfo... Don't men intend to be gay to not be married anyway to keep away from all the woman troubles? I find it kind of a lol'ing situation at times. But yeh, seriously, who gives a ***about marriage to begin with?

Quoting myself, Cause I wanna get married! <3


You're *** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

YOU'RE A *** ***, I WIN! (ninja edited thnx serj)

Go die in a fire.

Shut it, me and serj tickle each other at night! you jelous hoe?!
 
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By 2010-08-07 18:44:36
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 Valefor.Endlesspath
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By Valefor.Endlesspath 2010-08-07 18:54:37
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Cerberus.Ethics said:


I want to see an argument for why gay marriage is wrong to begin with. Why should it be illegal?

Throughout history, marriage has been the recognized ceremony by which humanity distinguishes a difference in child/family raising between the civility of humans, and the indifferent base instincts of animals. As humans are mammals, and reproduce exclusively heterosexually - marriage to that effect is solely recognized to be pure domain of a union of a man with a women... and nothing else.

Note: there is no modern religious perpective related to the above statement, the event of "marriage" was well before most modern religions, and ceremonialized afterwards by respective religions.

I have a very simple view on homosexuality -
1) Its your life do what you want, just do it in your privacy of your own home (just as much I sure dont want to see heterosexual promiscuity out in the open).
2) Nature (life) at its most basic level follows two simple rules for the maintenance of life:
-----> Survival of the fittest.
-----> Reproduction.
3) Homosexuality is contrary to these two base rules of nature, and is such contrary to nature. However since when do humans respect nature? As a homosexual, do you want - just don't kid your self your normal in respect to nature; after all you and your same sex partner will NEVER jointly reproduce.
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By 2010-08-07 19:02:30
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 Siren.Miayoko
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By Siren.Miayoko 2010-08-07 19:04:24
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Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:

jesus h christ on motherfucking stilts, homosexuality is natural, and found in nature. *** off and die.

How many idiots are going to say homosexuality is unnatural in this thread?

"REPRODUCTION IS IMPORTANT GUIZ!"

So does this mean I am 'no better than a gay' because I am not going to reproduce out of choice?

^^^^^^^^^ THIS.

Minus the not reproducing because I already have.

My faith in humanity is dwindling due to this thread.
 
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By 2010-08-07 19:24:25
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-08-07 19:24:33
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Siren.Miayoko said:
My faith in humanity is dwindling due to this thread.

It hadn't already?
 Siren.Miayoko
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By Siren.Miayoko 2010-08-07 19:44:37
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I was being rather optimistic :(
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 Valefor.Endlesspath
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By Valefor.Endlesspath 2010-08-07 19:45:27
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Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:

jesus h christ on motherfucking stilts, homosexuality is natural, and found in nature. *** off and die.

How many idiots are going to say homosexuality is unnatural in this thread?

"REPRODUCTION IS IMPORTANT GUIZ!"

So does this mean I am 'no better than a gay' because I am not going to reproduce out of choice?

Some people are able to express themselves clearly and understand the realities of life, and others are incapable of expressing themselves and live from moment to moment. The truth is painful but you will accept the reality soon enough.. you're mortal just like I am.

Oh, by the way, here's a few more normal things in nature according to your logic:



and countless other "normal" things that can be found on youtube.... my point beyond these unfortunate youtube references: nature too has it abnormalities, and referring to them doesnt make it normal for humanity.

And on a lighter note, here's another:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdz9n2_freaks-of-nature_fun

Enjoy your lifestyle of choice!

 Phoenix.Mogue
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By Phoenix.Mogue 2010-08-07 19:47:05
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Valefor.Endlesspath said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:

jesus h christ on motherfucking stilts, homosexuality is natural, and found in nature. *** off and die.

How many idiots are going to say homosexuality is unnatural in this thread?

"REPRODUCTION IS IMPORTANT GUIZ!"

So does this mean I am 'no better than a gay' because I am not going to reproduce out of choice?

Some people are able to express themselves clearly and understand the realities of life, and others are incapable of expressing themselves and live from moment to moment. The truth is painful but you will accept the reality soon enough.. your mortal just like I am.

Oh, by the way, here's a few more normal things in nature according to your logic:

and countless other "normal" things that can be found on youtube.... my point beyond these unfortunate youtube references: nature too has it abnormalities, and referring to them doesnt make it normal for humanity.

And on a lighter note, here's another:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdz9n2_freaks-of-nature_fun

Enjoy your lifestyle of choice!


You're a *** bigot.

Cut yourself til you bleed out and die.
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 Valefor.Endlesspath
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By Valefor.Endlesspath 2010-08-07 19:48:01
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Phoenix.Mogue said:

You're a *** bigot.

Cut yourself til you bleed out and die.

Lol
 
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 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-08-07 19:50:43
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You know what goes against nature? Doing something you dont like.
*** sake grow a brain. They cant help liking the same sex as they jts just like you liking a specific color over the other.

What would be unnatural is forcing yourself to do something you dislike. It doesnt make it right. Let them live and be happy you bitter *** get yourself a life.
 
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 Cerberus.Ethics
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By Cerberus.Ethics 2010-08-07 20:15:16
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Valefor.Endlesspath said:
...


I really don't see the argument in what you stated. Marriage, isn't about shitting out kids. Even if that was the case, why could a gay couple not raise an adopted child? Also why does the way in which something was done in the past, make it absolutely the correct and only way to do it in the future?

At the current population rate, we're ***, so perhaps we should make straight marriage illegal and gay marriage legal so we can do some population control. Maybe it's natures way of evening us out.

Reproduction is not a necessity of marriage and vice versa.
 Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-08-07 20:46:12
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Phoenix.Darki said:
You know what goes against nature? Doing something you dont like.
*** sake grow a brain. They cant help liking the same sex as they jts just like you liking a specific color over the other.

What would be unnatural is forcing yourself to do something you dislike. It doesnt make it right. Let them live and be happy you bitter *** get yourself a life.

This.
 Bismarck.Magnumatic
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By Bismarck.Magnumatic 2010-08-07 20:50:38
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Gilgamesh.Mytoy said:
Valefor.Endlesspath said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
jesus h christ on motherfucking stilts, homosexuality is natural, and found in nature. *** off and die. How many idiots are going to say homosexuality is unnatural in this thread? "REPRODUCTION IS IMPORTANT GUIZ!" So does this mean I am 'no better than a gay' because I am not going to reproduce out of choice?
Some people are able to express themselves clearly and understand the realities of life, and others are incapable of expressing themselves and live from moment to moment. The truth is painful but you will accept the reality soon enough.. you're mortal just like I am. Oh, by the way, here's a few more normal things in nature according to your logic: (videos) and countless other "normal" things that can be found on youtube.... my point beyond these unfortunate youtube references: nature too has it abnormalities, and referring to them doesnt make it normal for humanity. And on a lighter note, here's another: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdz9n2_freaks-of-nature_fun Enjoy your lifestyle of choice!
So...by your logic we should treat animals born with deformities like lesser beings of their kind. They should get ***treatment compared to the "normal" animals.

This^^


So...by your logic we should treat animals born with deformities like lesser beings of their kind. They should get ***treatment compared to the "normal" animals.

So...by your logic we should treat animals born with deformities like lesser beings of their kind. They should get ***treatment compared to the "normal" animals.

So...by your logic we should treat animals born with deformities like lesser beings of their kind. They should get ***treatment compared to the "normal" animals.

So...by your logic we should treat animals born with deformities like lesser beings of their kind. They should get ***treatment compared to the "normal" animals.

Edit: Although I wouldn't compare a homosexual to an animal, or say they had a deformity >_>;
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 Leviathan.Dissonant
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By Leviathan.Dissonant 2010-08-07 20:57:36
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Siren.Miayoko said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:

jesus h christ on motherfucking stilts, homosexuality is natural, and found in nature. *** off and die.

How many idiots are going to say homosexuality is unnatural in this thread?

"REPRODUCTION IS IMPORTANT GUIZ!"

So does this mean I am 'no better than a gay' because I am not going to reproduce out of choice?

^^^^^^^^^ THIS.

Minus the not reproducing because I already have.

My faith in humanity is dwindling due to this thread.
you two are the dumbest person. ):
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By Leviathan.Dissonant 2010-08-07 21:03:25
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Phoenix.Darki said:
You know what goes against nature? Doing something you dont like.
*** sake grow a brain. They cant help liking the same sex as they jts just like you liking a specific color over the other.

What would be unnatural is forcing yourself to do something you dislike. It doesnt make it right. Let them live and be happy you bitter *** get yourself a life.
you are the dumbest person.
Look, I have nothing against homosexuality, but saying "herp derp it's natural" is ridiculous. Did you know there is a mental disorder that fools you into thinking you would be better off without one or all of your limbs? Sorry I forget the name of it, but yeah. People will amputate themselves to get rid of it because they believe they will be happier without their limb(s). Sorry to take it to extremes, but just because you think something doesn't mean it's natural.
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