Vermeil Bhuj Vs Sumeru Steel Cyclone + 10%

The best part of this thread.

It's not really a certain dmg amount that makes sumeru better on SC it's base dmg.

Specifically assuming you aren't overcapped fstr on Vermeil you would need +16 to base dmg from fstr and stat mods to be the same dmg. Anything more and Sumeru is going to win.

Seeing as SC has 50% str and vit mod... you should be able to get mroe than that nekkid.

Now what will produce overal more dmg with melee and xhit builds etc etc. *** if I am going to go that far

Sorry sarcasm doesn't transfer over very well.

The solution here is to suck less, not more. Properly buffed DDs will tear hate off a PLD given the opportunity to do so at the start of a fight, but if they're treated as cotanks rather than DDs who should never have hate and said DDs act appropriately (use Seigan/Utsu and bring PDT/MDT gear) then there really shouldn't be an issue unless your entire back line is afk.

I'm only curious, before you guys were in a "good" linkshell, how many times did you have PLDs be the tank, and only tank, and have DD/thf?

So people know that there are bandwagon sams, but dont expect that there are bandwagon plds? That is just silly!!!

For anything serious I would still use a PLD tank, its by far the most dominant and efficient, to argue that would be HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, especially since its buff. Low man I'll tank DRK/NIN(edit) sure, but lets be serious, anything serious PLD will do it better.

Not even close to relevant. Did it happen? Yes. Did we move beyond that? *** yes, and you can too. DDs should not be scared of occasionally taking hate off the main tanks.

No one said pld cant tank. It is that not all of them are good or care enough about their job.

I was on nin/drk co-tanking with a pld on ultima. That was my first tanking anything. I had hate the majority of th time, even when the pld was being trick attack gekko. The pld ended up curing me to get hate back and still failed.

The mages let me die. I had hate asked for shell/protect haste and refresh ; ; I was ignored. Instead of curing me and they focused on the pld. Sure cure the pld when nin/drk is getting raped cause of no support when he has hate <.<

This was when nin/drk was still hot

I think you misunderstood my question.

I don't really care if it did or did not happen, and if we did or did not move on. I can say right now a lot of people haven't moved on. So I don't think speaking for everyone was really accurate.

I remember all the time seeing Nyzul shouts for people /nin onry, and whenever I was in sky all I saw was DD/thf. I even saw DD/nin and DD/sam for gods, so I'm not saying nobody has moved on. And yes 2010 I still saw this.

"And you can too" Whenever I was a DD/thf, I was only on SAM and never did I only WS when SA or TA was up. I WSed whenever I had TP, and whenever I had TA or SA up, I used them for DMG and keeping hate on PLDs. Whether it was Armed Gears, or whenever my sky ls was was low manning gods, or we had no DD for gods.

Seriously any tank that can truthfully call themselves such don't need TA unless you have stupid DDs that like to unlead everything at the start of a fight and/or frequent hate reset moves

rangers or black mages to be more exact lol

I wasn't speaking for everyone. The reality is that the potential is there, not that everyone does it.

So have we or have we not moved beyond "sucking"?

And I think you were speaking for everyone. By saying we have moved beyond sucking, when you and I both said that some/most people have not moved on.

Why do these threads always diverge into the realm of nonsensical or just plain off topic? the original question was sumeru vs vermeil right? was this question really answered? i missed it im sure. but better than just picking one can anyone tell me WHY one is better than the other? what kinda difference we talking about, Huge gap, minimal difference? it seems really somewhat obvious if ur just using dmg vs dmg. but has anyone tested it? last and i have address this telling someone not to use a useful ws and not saying why is terrible. On almost every mob except Experience mob (non abyssa exp)i've used SC with good effect, to elaborate it's either done as well as or more than my kj/rr. I have no idea why as a war with decent gear u would not want to use it. .... especially with an axe that gives str+8. Instead of flaming good hard solid facts would be welcome.

You really need to learn to read =\ We (Mankey and I, the people you were seeking a response from in the quoted text) moved beyond those ls's, and before you mention my "suck less" earlier, I didn't flat out state anyone sucked. There are degrees of suck. Hell, I'm still trying to suck less.

Don't care what you think, it is what it is.

Is English your first language? If so how do you not get the point of SC being useless unless /THF, and since /THF is useless, STEEEL CYCLONE IS USELESS making the weapon comparison a waste of time(even though vermal was already proven to be superior)

Well, if "we" was supposed to mean "You and Mankey" Then you should have said "Mankey and I" in the first place. But then again, maybe I should have been more specific, because that question wasn't directed at just you and Mankey. So saying "we have moved on" is speaking for everyone.

And saying you're still trying to "suck less" Please explain this fascinating sentence.

AH.com forum is the bridge. And we're the trolls.

And by the way. My warrior WS gear may just be gimparoony. But whenever I was Warrior on gods war/sam, I always found Steel Cyclone doing more damage than RR/KJ.

Guess I'm a useless warrior. :/

You are telling me the majority of the NA player base hasnt moved on from all DD /THF setting up SATA WS's? Do PLDs still /WAR with everyone else /SMN with Aerial Armor rotations, idk, I personally would say the majority of players interested in improving themselves (NA at least, Japs are stuck in the dark Ages) have moved on to more efficient ways of killing mobs.

To start off, Sumeru requires more STP to 6-hit. Depending on your gear options this can be a problem. After that, Vermeil has 8 more base damage (2 STR) and 6 attack during TP; up to 12 more base damage during WS depending on your WS of choice. I'd like to see parses of your WS and relevant food/buffs/gear, because what little WAR math I've done and what I've learned from experienced WARs favors RR and KJ over SC in nearly any situation.

You should have made this clear to begin with then!
By "we" you mean "I" right? You have to be clear about these things, and right now it looks like you're speaking for everyone when I'm not a troll =\

Ok just to set the record str8.i think i've used /thf all of one exp party just to see what it was like. SUB whatever u like idc. SC is still an awesome ws. Essentialy my average SC is anywhere from 600-1800 going as high as 2500. i've done the same with KJ and rr. To clarify i never said that SC was the best ws in a warriors arsenal simply that it wasn't useless.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/124393

Mind posting your RR sets?

Steel Cyclone is absolute trash I've tested multiple builds for it on multiple mobs, check my equip history, make a SC build, I'll go and test it against my RR or KJ build.... My WAR isnt perfectly built but I guarantee I have the gear to test both WSs at there maximum potential

Might TP in Askar body, seems like he doesn't own a Haub, this should be good

Even as /THF in XP (for whatever reason), wouldn't KJ/RR still spike higher?

icwutudidthar.

I may have the meaning wrong, but isn't writing off-topic messages trolling? I do believe we're (you and I) talking about something unrelated to what the OP was looking for. I've trolled around a bit. You read that Rajas/Sattva topic in PLD. I trolled some hardcore stuff there. AH.com forums is a trolls' paradise. This place is loaded with trolls.

Yes, but then you couldn't WS in a Osode you worked so hard in sky for !!!

What do you consider serious? Apoc Drk is the best tank for sky gods, fafnir, nidhogg, Aspid, Sandworm, tiamat, proto-omega, and most salvage runs. PLD will never do better on any of those unless you're mages are complete ***or you dont know how to count to three.

Also war/thf uses:

Ixion

Jailer of Love, generally if you parse this and you arent using double bards in your DD party WS spikes will beat melee DOT by massive ammounts. You'll parse higher with a SA Pdif ws.

Yea I'm bull shittin atm.