Clearing Common Blue Mage Misconceptions.
Clearing Common Blue Mage Misconceptions.
I find 550 hard to believe myself without full moon, lots of MND, etc. if you don't have any healing magic. Hitting 600s is easy with a full-blown MND setup and Light Arts, though.
Unless Plenilune embrace has a hidden modifier (Not counting the moon phase.) of chr or int, I dont know. lol
Edit: It could be that my memeory is a wee bit off, I'd have to check out how much it does later. when I get home. I do know that the minimum hp plenilune embrace has cured for me (granted not casting it at a worthless time.) was around 445-477 with out mnd+ gear. and minimum for magic fruit was around 365-370
Edit: It could be that my memeory is a wee bit off, I'd have to check out how much it does later. when I get home. I do know that the minimum hp plenilune embrace has cured for me (granted not casting it at a worthless time.) was around 445-477 with out mnd+ gear. and minimum for magic fruit was around 365-370
I spent hrs testing Plenilune Embrace the day I got it, using limited MND gear taking my mnd to only 100 and using a light staff my spell adveraged 536 but did max from time to time at 589. W/o light and with only 65mnd I adveraged around 432 and maxed at 475. I'll be continuing to test this as I get more mnd gear.
I've been getting just over 500 HP cured from Plenilune Embrace personally. I have not yet tested it using a "proper" mage build ... I've been /NIN the whole time, so no healing skill from sub, and not using Apollo's. I have a pretty good MND set, and look forward to testing it properly.
now that you said something I was /dnc I'll /whm and /rdm and test as well
Just did some testing because I wanted to see if perhaps blue magic skill was a factor. Turns out it's not. Also, turns out no matter what gear I have, Plenilune Embrace cures exactly 100HP more than Magic Fruit. The only exception of course, being from the "cure" potency +X% on light staff (and any other items you may have).
I also did a couple other small tests like VIT, just comparing warwolf to penitent's to nothing, and the difference with each one was still exactly 100 difference.
So, in summary, Plenilune Embrace is an extra 100HP for an extra 34MP.
| Total MND | Magic Fruit | Plenilune Embrace |
|---|---|---|
| 112 | 405 | 505 |
| 52 | 301 | 401 |
| 116+ Staff | 453 | 563 |
I also did a couple other small tests like VIT, just comparing warwolf to penitent's to nothing, and the difference with each one was still exactly 100 difference.
So, in summary, Plenilune Embrace is an extra 100HP for an extra 34MP.
These random extra amounts of HP cured... Was it lights day/weather?
I did it for a few hours and didn't see a change based on day or moon phase, it was weird that it would just up and down from time to time. Even did a test with capped blu magic skill at 315 and 84mnd w/o light staff and it was between 423-470. once again I was /dnc I'm going to go test /rdm blu going to try to take into account I'm 2 lvls higher now.
that's exactly what i wanted to say
if you have the proper tank and healer there's no reason not being /thf if you intend to be on a DD role.
you wont do the geko 1000-1500 => CASA vertical cleave 2000 => darkness 1000 to 2000
in this example the partner is a sam but it can be other DD type
of course i wont come /THF if i have to solo or to tank
what i wanted to point is, read my example again
the comparison between
this blu that came in party /nin and did the big three for 45 dmg ( for several reasons : not a good choice in gear, no merits maybe, because of accuracy on evasive creature and multi hit spells missing a lot ) while i was doing a constant 1900 dmg every 1m40 or so and skillchaining with my buddy
another example
i watched draylo's video on youtube vs diabolos prime
he was /nin that was really good video dude, parasite eve music isnt it ?
it was a long fight
i did diabolos prime yesterday with my buddy sam
i was /thf
sam did a yuki => gekko = fragmentation
i did a azcasa cannonball for 2990 + 2990 light and BLM MBed on it
diabolos was DEAD
time elapsed on this ? maybe 15-20 seconds w/o counting the buff at start
i dont agree when you say /thf is situational
or every /sub are situational in this case
its your personnal way of playing blu
after that , we can all argue on which sub is the best,but for my part, i dont go /nin unless im forced to
if you have the proper tank and healer there's no reason not being /thf if you intend to be on a DD role.
you wont do the geko 1000-1500 => CASA vertical cleave 2000 => darkness 1000 to 2000
in this example the partner is a sam but it can be other DD type
of course i wont come /THF if i have to solo or to tank
what i wanted to point is, read my example again
the comparison between
this blu that came in party /nin and did the big three for 45 dmg ( for several reasons : not a good choice in gear, no merits maybe, because of accuracy on evasive creature and multi hit spells missing a lot ) while i was doing a constant 1900 dmg every 1m40 or so and skillchaining with my buddy
another example
i watched draylo's video on youtube vs diabolos prime
he was /nin that was really good video dude, parasite eve music isnt it ?
it was a long fight
i did diabolos prime yesterday with my buddy sam
i was /thf
sam did a yuki => gekko = fragmentation
i did a azcasa cannonball for 2990 + 2990 light and BLM MBed on it
diabolos was DEAD
time elapsed on this ? maybe 15-20 seconds w/o counting the buff at start
i dont agree when you say /thf is situational
or every /sub are situational in this case
its your personnal way of playing blu
after that , we can all argue on which sub is the best,but for my part, i dont go /nin unless im forced to
Your personal way of playing blu is with someone else to tank for you and to open SC's (why can't you open your own with Expiacion?). Situational is situational.
so we agree Blazza
every /sub are situational
but for my part, in most situations im /thf
and surely if you're a devoted blu tank you're /nin even /war no ?
if i do a expiacion => vertical cleave
my tp will go in expiacion not in vertical cleave
and in this case we rushed diabolos, didnt have icarus wing or so, so no time to build tp to 100
i did 6k dmg expiacion => vertical self skillchain dont do that
and since im always playing with my sam buddy in event...
why dont skillchain with him for more dmg ?
every /sub are situational
but for my part, in most situations im /thf
and surely if you're a devoted blu tank you're /nin even /war no ?
if i do a expiacion => vertical cleave
my tp will go in expiacion not in vertical cleave
and in this case we rushed diabolos, didnt have icarus wing or so, so no time to build tp to 100
i did 6k dmg expiacion => vertical self skillchain dont do that
and since im always playing with my sam buddy in event...
why dont skillchain with him for more dmg ?
Because the sam can do something to make the skillchain do even more dmg!
Yeah Parasite Eve music ftw.
TBH, that is situational though... It took a little longer because I was the only DD in there. It only took 5m as well but we had me as only DD and a 63 brd 75 brd and 75 whm. If you went /thf in that situation you would have died :X.
TBH, that is situational though... It took a little longer because I was the only DD in there. It only took 5m as well but we had me as only DD and a 63 brd 75 brd and 75 whm. If you went /thf in that situation you would have died :X.
yep its even better now with his new job ability ( sengikori) and job trait ( skillchain bonus) !!!!!!
yeah draylo, that's why i said ill come /nin only if im forced to
yeah draylo, that's why i said ill come /nin only if im forced to
fast question, witch spells are good with /thf?
Anything physical, and single-hit.
Vertical Cleave is ace with SACA and 100% TP.
Cannonball rocks with SACA, assuming you build for it and choose the right target.
Spinal Cleave and Sickle Slash are good with SA alone (CA down).
Vertical Cleave is ace with SACA and 100% TP.
Cannonball rocks with SACA, assuming you build for it and choose the right target.
Spinal Cleave and Sickle Slash are good with SA alone (CA down).
there is also death scissors when you are lvl 60 ish
DS stacks with azure lore
DS stacks with azure lore
Basilo, someone disagreeing with you doesn't make you wrong. Especially when you support yourself with facts and other support themselves with "I feel"s. Even if I come across as a *** and people hate me for it and don't want to agree, they can't change the fact you're right when you are.
I admit I didn't think about Convert when I mentioned MP, I'm talking about mp in spellcasting and tp phases, my bad. IT also has very limited use for convert if you're meleeing, especially in a party.
Also, Convert effectiveness will vary by race/food/gear/traits/spells/etc. Convert for me is ~3mp a tick. Considering I always have ~6mp a tick after taking the 1 tick off for BC cost, that makes it about a 50% increase in mp for me max, which would be a max increase of 33% to overall spell damage. Then you factor in if you really use it every 10 minutes on the dot. Will you short change your buffs to use the mp before hitting your your tp gear? How long are you in your convert gear? Are you only using, or is all your mp going towards your max damage spell? Are you curing yourself?
All of these things come into play, and you start to realize convert isn't really as big a damage boost as it looks on paper.
The reason I called it self defeating is because it'd be more like a 20% boost to my spell damage in the end, and it'd cut my tping/WS damage by a bit, so the overall total damage increase is like 10%.
Is that worth the loss of shadows in most situations? Not really, no. Increasing the need for defense while lowering defense is why I called convert self defeating.
I admit I didn't think about Convert when I mentioned MP, I'm talking about mp in spellcasting and tp phases, my bad. IT also has very limited use for convert if you're meleeing, especially in a party.
Also, Convert effectiveness will vary by race/food/gear/traits/spells/etc. Convert for me is ~3mp a tick. Considering I always have ~6mp a tick after taking the 1 tick off for BC cost, that makes it about a 50% increase in mp for me max, which would be a max increase of 33% to overall spell damage. Then you factor in if you really use it every 10 minutes on the dot. Will you short change your buffs to use the mp before hitting your your tp gear? How long are you in your convert gear? Are you only using, or is all your mp going towards your max damage spell? Are you curing yourself?
All of these things come into play, and you start to realize convert isn't really as big a damage boost as it looks on paper.
The reason I called it self defeating is because it'd be more like a 20% boost to my spell damage in the end, and it'd cut my tping/WS damage by a bit, so the overall total damage increase is like 10%.
Is that worth the loss of shadows in most situations? Not really, no. Increasing the need for defense while lowering defense is why I called convert self defeating.
Everything has some form of overflow, so that argument only goes so far. It does have weight though, as you're cutting out a bit of your DPS both by not verting on recast and remaining in vert gear for however long. I do agree that potential for death is very high if you're careless. It's not something I'll be employing in even a remotely dangerous situation - if I'm not 99.9% confident in my ability to vert at or very near recast without dying I'll sub something else.
A thought: /RDM doesn't necessarily have a significant negative impact on your per-WS damage. While you might lose a point or two in STR and DEX, there's also MAB II to consider for Sanguine Blade. Whether it adds up favorably obviously depends on how you're expending your TP, but it's there.
On a related note, FUUUUU INT primary with STR and MND mods. I have got to get on top of Salvaging.
On a related note, FUUUUU INT primary with STR and MND mods. I have got to get on top of Salvaging.
Is Sanguine Blade even that good for DMG? And you can't SC with it, can you?... I mean, it's nifty for when I have 100% TP and CA is down, but I can't seem to break ~330.
/rdm for nuking only or gtfo 0.0
/sch main healing
/whm main healing or support
/nin solo and tanking or when ever there is not a good tank
/thf if you have a good tank
/sam same a thf if you have a good tank in the party
/war tanking and DDing
dual weild trait when ever your not /nin
double attack trait w brutals unless your /war
my blu is 80 since last week I have all my spells been playing around with stuff. Definitely see a difference I been raping ***in abyssea. DW1 trait really seems almost the same as /nin especially w suppa. DA with brutals and haste seems to proc often enough for me to add it to my full time set traits along with acc bonus and auto refresh. Imo blu has been given a very noticeable upgrade this last update. I'm not mad at all 8D
/sch main healing
/whm main healing or support
/nin solo and tanking or when ever there is not a good tank
/thf if you have a good tank
/sam same a thf if you have a good tank in the party
/war tanking and DDing
dual weild trait when ever your not /nin
double attack trait w brutals unless your /war
my blu is 80 since last week I have all my spells been playing around with stuff. Definitely see a difference I been raping ***in abyssea. DW1 trait really seems almost the same as /nin especially w suppa. DA with brutals and haste seems to proc often enough for me to add it to my full time set traits along with acc bonus and auto refresh. Imo blu has been given a very noticeable upgrade this last update. I'm not mad at all 8D
Magical WSs will do the same damage to a mob every single time unless resisted or D/W bonus. They're also independent of weapon damage. True Antea with 2-3 Khanda offhand would be the best setup if you were facing non resistant mobs now. You sacrifce spikes from Crits/DAs for Consistency and a higher average.
I tend to do about 500ish on non resistant mobs, so that's 250-500hp drained depending on TP when used. I set MAB and have a strong MND/MAB build from RDM and BLM.
As for /RDM lowering WS damage, I didn't mean on a per WS basis, I meant it lowers total WS damage by slowing tp gain.
I tend to do about 500ish on non resistant mobs, so that's 250-500hp drained depending on TP when used. I set MAB and have a strong MND/MAB build from RDM and BLM.
As for /RDM lowering WS damage, I didn't mean on a per WS basis, I meant it lowers total WS damage by slowing tp gain.
Ok because i dont think anyof you guys have ever main healed on BLU like i have.....
Magic fruit i was capping the MND mod on to the point that healing magic skill from /SCH did nothing (about 150~ MND)
<tested with cure calculator to see if i should level /sch>
so we DID need another healing spell and this one is not worthless MP wise.
also the enmity gained from a full magic fruit is... crazy..to say the least.
i used this gear VERY rarely because of this(limbus and dyna when mobs die fast) but i've seen less hate from 640~ Embrace than my 550~ magic fruit. maybe a sup par cure V enmity calculation? because i did pull hate more than a whm with cure V.
Magic fruit i was capping the MND mod on to the point that healing magic skill from /SCH did nothing (about 150~ MND)
<tested with cure calculator to see if i should level /sch>
so we DID need another healing spell and this one is not worthless MP wise.
also the enmity gained from a full magic fruit is... crazy..to say the least.
i used this gear VERY rarely because of this(limbus and dyna when mobs die fast) but i've seen less hate from 640~ Embrace than my 550~ magic fruit. maybe a sup par cure V enmity calculation? because i did pull hate more than a whm with cure V.
No matter what you do Penilune will only have 100 base hp on Fruit, since it's based on the exact same formula.
Plenilune isn't quite as good as fruit for MP efficiency, but if you're curing and you need to get your target as far from the danger range as possible, as quick as possible, Plenilune is then better.
Plenilune isn't quite as good as fruit for MP efficiency, but if you're curing and you need to get your target as far from the danger range as possible, as quick as possible, Plenilune is then better.
Remora.Brain said:
No matter what you do Penilune will only have 100 base hp on Fruit, since it's based on the exact same formula.
Plenilune isn't quite as good as fruit for MP efficiency, but if you're curing and you need to get your target as far from the danger range as possible, as quick as possible, Plenilune is then better.
Plenilune isn't quite as good as fruit for MP efficiency, but if you're curing and you need to get your target as far from the danger range as possible, as quick as possible, Plenilune is then better.
How are they the exact formula?
Actually, Brain's last comment reminded me that I do intend on using Plenilune in Salvage, which is the only place I ever cure other people any more (when fighting chariots).
Having said that, Brain, do you have a source for the 100 extra HP? I haven't seen anything about that aside from my own testing, and I only did /nin with 116 MND max. To my knowledge there is no cap on Magic Fruit, but if there is, and the cap is higher for Plenilune, then that's where it'll start to pull ahead. Which will be an easier to attain number once we reach level 99.
Having said that, Brain, do you have a source for the 100 extra HP? I haven't seen anything about that aside from my own testing, and I only did /nin with 116 MND max. To my knowledge there is no cap on Magic Fruit, but if there is, and the cap is higher for Plenilune, then that's where it'll start to pull ahead. Which will be an easier to attain number once we reach level 99.
I can second the +100 HP thing. Tried with a couple different values, always +100.
It's very probable they have the same formula. BLU's other cures are just WHM's formulas modified to begin with. Magic Fruit has the same formula as Cure V, for instance--it just has a hard amount subtracted after calculated (I forget exact amount). It's pretty easy to just lower that subtraction by 100 and call it a day.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
I can second the 100 HP thing. Tried with a couple different values, always 100.
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