Presto Useful?

Doing my trial in the ole tree and I got to thinking, presto doesn't seem as good as some people thought it would be. I personally find it very useful in between mobs and a good way to start a fight off. But then I got to thinking, there must be some reason SE made it the way they did and here is a little something I came up with.

This is assuming btw that you have at least 1 merit in building flourish.

Starting out with at least 100 TP and 5 finishing moves, as if you were about to do a normal dancer solo skillchain.

Presto > Building Flourish > Step > WS > Reverse Flo > WS

I used Evisceration into Pyrrhic Kleos. Building Flourish bumped my Evis from 350-450 to 1099 (300TP) and PK was 828 with Darkness 960. So 2887 total.

The timers line up pretty good. Presto then you have 15 seconds to your step. Building Flourish and you have 10 seconds until Reverse is up. You can breath a little after you land your step to time your swings because Building Flourish lasts for a whole minute.

Wouldn't you have to give up 5/5 haste and 5/5 reverse to merit building though?

What's not good about extra finishing moves from steps?

Hell it's the main reason the mythic is good

Everything's great about it lol. Lets you cap at 5 finishing moves using 2 steps instead of 3.

I was put under the impression recently that, for all intents and purposes, a certain TP gain rate and need for finishing moves in the first place made Reverse Flourish pointless anyway. Something along the lines that generating enough finishing moves wasted enough melee time in JA usage that you'd have just as much TP anyway.

I was more concerned with time loss to WS'ing, as contributing to the OAT Scythe having a problem of WS saturation, so I didn't get the full story.

Reverse Flourish no, I leave that at 5/5. Currently I have 2/5 Building and 3/5 in Haste Samba. This still gives me 8% Haste Samba and 4 ACC 2% ATK and 2% Crit rate to my WS when using building flourish, which is good for using evisceration.

I think what a lot of people were crying about is that using Presto uses the counter on steps. You could effectively get 4 Finishing Moves by doing 2 steps normally, whereas in the same amount of time you get 3 finishing moves using Presto and save (in essence) only 5TP. I know other dancers I play with where hoping to be able to use Presto every 15 seconds along with the steps to enhance them, basically giving them all the same effect as mythic weapon.

Why would you need at least a merit in Building Flourish, and why would you merit Building Flourish to begin with, and why would you think Building Flourish bumps your WS damage that much, and why would you WS at 300% TP, and why would you want to leave yourself with no TP at the end (assuming you're talking about using this in any situation where you're playing your job seriously). So confused @_@

But yes, Presto is nice in between fights.

Uhm... 5/5 reverse = 75 TP @ 30 TP cost or 20 TP cost with presto.

0/5 Reverse = 60 TP @ 30 TP or 20 TP cost with presto.

Dancers are going to be stepping anyway, or should be damnit, to debuff mobs so you are going to have finishing moves, better to get all you can out of them.

Are you talking about Reverse Flourish as DNC -subjob-?

@flip Why do I think that, lol because it does! My WS didn't magically or randomly jump that high. WS at 300% becuase with Evis crit rate increases with TP, I'm not left without TP at the end. This is something to do when you are soloing silly mobs that you want to kill quickly, or when you just want to have some fun and see what you can do with the game lol.

No, meant that I caught wind of Reverse Flourish being less than purported if building steps while TPing while looking up information on melee time loss to JAs and WS in relation to multihit weapons losing melee time to WSing so often.

I get what you are saying, and yeah sometimes it does interrupt attacks when you do it. That is why when a dancer does the WS > Reverse Flourish > WS you have to time the first weaponskill to have enough TP for the second (not using multiattack, or double attack). But if you time your steps and flourishes well you can avoid it for the most part I believe, and you get the benefits of the debuffs as well.

The notion was more specific to raw TP gain that the extra TP from Reverse Flourish was pointless due to JA melee time losses. The summation was that Reverse Flourish didn't actually gain you much TP in this situation, but at least gave you the opportunity to debuff the mob at the same time, but in raw TP gain just straight melee would tend to win out in high buff situations.

o.0 I didn't know it shared a timer with steps, hmmm that kinda blows but from the perspective of enfeebling the enhanced step could be useful.

And everything that was stated after that got me confused.

We are referring to dnc main not sub correct?!

Is this referring to dnc or /dnc? If /dnc then I totally agree that the tp return would barely be worth it, but dnc as your main job each step nets you 2 finishing moves which is like doubling your tp while also tossing some minor enfeebs on the mob, and if you have reverse flourish merited it just nets your more tp. So for at least dnc main I think using steps to gain tp along with your normal dot is productive.

I could be wrong since I'm not going of numbers, just eyeballin' stuff :p

Actually the thing about Presto is that as with the timer and being able to gain more finishing moves with 2 steps, is that with presto the next step does 2 levels of debuff. So...

Presto > Quickstep = 3 Finish Moves, Lethargic Daze Lv. 2

Quickstep > Quickstep = 4 Finishing Moves, Lethargic Daze Lv. 2

Both take the same amount of time, and the presto route takes 10 TP less. But please keep in mind dancers, that the Quickstep route gives you an extra 15 seconds of -8 evasion on the mob the you do not get while you are waiting for presto.

SOmeone said presto shared the same recast as steps tho. So for 1 extra step, it'd take twice the amount of time. I haven't been on dnc myself, but is what I'm hearing.

Damn it, it doesn't work like I hoped it would. I haven't been home at all this weekend so my dnc is still at 75 and I have not been able to personally test Presto. I had an idea on how it would work, but from what you're saying I'm fairly disappointed.

When it says shares it means you can use presto OR steps and then wait 15 seconds to step again. it kinda sucks.

I guess if it works like that the only time I, personally, would use it would be when I need to get the steps effect to 5/5 asap. Like at the beginning of a solo or something when I'm scramming to get 5/5 on stutter to assure my stuns land.

Other then that I think I'd just use my steps normally.

Still have to try it out for myself lol.

Haven't taken my dnc past 75 yet, but by sharing timer, I don't like it.

30 seconds for 2 steps, 4 finishing moves

30 secs for 1 step, 3 finishing moves.

1 finishing move is more than 10 tp spent on the extra step.

I couldn't see myself making much use of this, even if the enfeeble effect is a bit stronger

The enfeeb isn't even stronger though. It just makes the step do 2 levels at once, which you get if you do 2 steps anyway. It's pretty hard to talk up this ability aside from a battle opener or if you are goofing around like I do :D

Well if what was stated earlier is true, then using one step would net you 2 enfeebs on the mob. So it would be like: "Huwhuddep uses Stutter step, The _______ is inflicted with Weakened Daze lv.2"

So in the end your Presto > Step > Step > Step > Step isn't going to be any more potent then just Step(x5). It will be equal but just take one less step.

Pretty dumb if ya ask me.

Oh, worthless

<Somerngdude> Pulling Mob! <call5> !!!!
<Dancer> Uses Presto
<Mob> Shows up
<Dancer> Uses Box Step. Bam! 3 Moves 2 levels of Def down!

That's about as useful as it gets.

Well like both you and I stated, it could be useful at the very beginning of a fight. But that's about all I'd use it for lol.

...unless the animation is cool, and I doubt it is. Hahaha.

I'm with Tiger. Worthless unless you're waiting in between battles and have time to charge it up.

Even if it's good to have fun and make a SC when you're soloing low level mobs...it still doesn't give Presto much value in a real fight.

And Evis is a crit WS. If your hits don't crit, your WS is really weak. If they happen to, it's strong. You could also proc DA by chance. You seem to be giving an example of a low Evis vs a spiked Evis. Building Flourish isn't going to make your WS suddenly do that much more damage.

And three Evis at 100% are going to do more damage than one at 300%...so it's not really efficient for "killing quickly."

Well the thing about that Flippant is uhm... you are wrong about Evis (though totally right on about presto).

No DA equipped and making sure each WS was done with Lv 3 DEF down to keep it even I did the following.

300% TP Evis no B.Flo 20 times. AVG = 1094

100% TP Evis x3 no B.Flo 20 times (60 total) AVG = 1016

Now the fun part :D

100% TP Evis X3 + B.Flo 20 times (60 total) AVG = 1436

Keep in mind please that I only have 2 merits in B.flo so my weaponskills are getting a mere 4ACC 2% ATK and 2% Critical hit rate. I start to drool when I think about having 10ACC 5% ATK and 5% Critical.

Sadly P.K. doesn't get as much goodness from it :(

But yeah, I mean, the numbers are there. If you want me to run more testing let me know. I still have lots of dagger trials to do and collecting data kinda makes it fun ^^ If there are any other variables I should take into account let me know. I think my next trial is 400 Peistes :O should be fun.

Hello, I normally only read the forums but for the sake of this topic:
I use presto while I'm soloing when I have 5 finishing moves and near 100 TP. This way after I WS and reverse flourish I can quickly step and have 3 FM and only need one more step to be back at 5 to reverse and Dancing Edge again. While it isn't a JA we should spam it has its uses.

Stepping twice will get your debuff on par with presto+step and result in one more finishing move in situations where the mob won't last long enough to "double step" you can charge presto up beforehand land the stronger debuff with 1 more FM in your pocket and watch your target go down that much faster.

It could be worse spirit jump is linked to jump's timer while we only have to wait 15 secs!

not to derail at all, but thats a completely diff situation. Jump and Spirit jump are almost identical from what i've seen, with the exception jump merits dont work on spirit jump and spirit jump lowers enmity while jump does not. Barring during the use of 2-hr (jump lowers the mob's def by 20% during 2hr) why would you use jump over spirit jump anyways ?

The only way to compare jump/spirit jump to presto/steps would be if just using presto gave you 3 fms and the 2x step effect. imo. Granted, im slightly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and a huge n00b so i could be wrong..