Religion Strikes Again |
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Religion strikes again
Phoenix.Smileybone said: Fact: Religion has been the biggest(lol actually pretty much only until recent years) donor to the needy for the past several thousand years. Bill Gates has donated more money to the needy than every church in America COMBINED. Bill Gates is Atheist. What does that have to do with anything?
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Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. Obstacle for minorities? In what case? There is nothing in the Bible that separates one man from another in terms of skin color. Unless your talking about some other religion. Then I really couldn't say. Religion is a crunch for most american citizens. Is it healthy? Not 100%, but at the same time it is also needed. Without something to believe in, everyone would be like..................................me
Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. The bible goes into detail about how to buy slaves, who can be slaves and who can not, how they should treat the slaves, how the slaves should treat their master, and how women can not get out of slavery the same way a man can. Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: I'll raise this question again; who do you think is more violent and has a higher probability to create an act of murder/violence, a religious person who believes in a judgment day or someone who no fear of ever caught? I will not argue with you. Stalin was Atheist. But.. Some say Stalin was also a vegetarian. Does that mean that all vegetarians are murderous people? No. Stalin's Atheism had nothing to do with what he did. He did not kill in the name of Atheism. When the Al'Quida crashed planes into the World Trade Centers.. Who's name did they Shout? "Praise Allah!" This goes back to the Logical pathway between religion and atrocious acts that RELIGION creates. "If I kill in the name of my god, I must be a good person!" We live in a world with over what, 8 billion people? Ya there's gonna be some crazy person that's gonna give religion a bad name. Also, the whole argument you made about vegetables goes both ways, like you said some people who believed in religion did WTC but that doesn't mean that all people who believe in religion would ever be willing to do something like that. Stalin believed that religion would undermine his rule so he killed many people simply because they believed in a religion. And hey millions of people dead > couple of thousand dead. Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. Obstacle for minorities? In what case? There is nothing in the Bible that separates one man from another in terms of skin color. Unless your talking about some other religion. Then I really couldn't say. I dunno, many more complex religions tend to give people a xenophobic complex making it difficult to adjust to cultural or racial changes as time goes on. Hence why we see the whole "God Hates ***" signs being waved around even today. Lakshmi.Jaerik said: I do have sympathy for the argument that writing off an entire religion, or the practitioners of that religion, because of bad behavior by a few of its members, is wholly unfair. That having been said, if the followers of said religion do not act better or worse than the general population in any statistically relevant way, what's the point? This has actually been my main argument against religion for years. Statistically, people who are religious are not any less likely to do drugs, be promiscuous, have abortions, commit crimes, or act like jerks than those who do not subscribe to any religion. Claims of "eternal salvation" are pretty and sound good, but I'm more concerned with their behavior here on earth, and frankly, they don't particularly behave any better or worse than anyone else. Edited to add: In fact, all one has to do is a demographic search of the "red states" to see that those states tend to have the highest percentages of their population engaging in the very behaviors that their religion preaches against. Phoenix.Smileybone said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: I'll raise this question again; who do you think is more violent and has a higher probability to create an act of murder/violence, a religious person who believes in a judgment day or someone who no fear of ever caught? First of all, you're apologizing away an awful lot of destruction caused by religion, and comparing it to what ONE atheist did. Second, you have no evidence to support what you said about Stalin. Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. The bible goes into detail about how to buy slaves, who can be slaves and who can not, how they should treat the slaves, how the slaves should treat their master, and how women can not get out of slavery the same way a man can. The verses of which you speak are how to treat slaves, not necessarily condoning it. Either way, in context ancient slavery had nothing to do with race, therefore nothing to do with minorities. Edit: Spelling... Look I'm not going to act as though religion hasn't done some bad things in the past, and that it still does some bad things this current day. I won't deny that. It doesn't mean I believe those things are right. I don't like though how everyone here against religion is not willing to look at themselves at all because "atheism is never to blame" or so it seems like some of you pretend like that's how it works. Also furthermore, religious people constitute a much greater amount of people then atheism. Only about 12% of the worlds population describes themselves as nonreligious. This means that it is more likely that we are likely to get more bad apples.
I can't remember all of the verses off the top of my head that talk about slavery, but here are some:
Leviticus 25:44-46 44If you want slaves, buy them from other nations 45or from the foreigners who live in your own country, and make them your property. 46You can own them, and even leave them to your children when you die, but do not make slaves of your own people or be cruel to them. Exodus 21:7 7A young woman who was sold by her father doesn't gain her freedom in the same way that a man does. 1 Peter 2:18 18Servants, you must obey your masters and always show respect to them. Do this, not only to those who are kind and thoughtful, but also to those who are cruel. inb4 Atheist Hitler....since you know...he wasn't...
Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. Slavery had a lot to do with racism, and the bible stands behind it. Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Fact: Religion has been the greatest obstacle for minorities, Women, and homosexuals to gain their freedom and rights. Slavery had a lot to do with racism. Leviathan.Dubont said: inb4 Atheist Hitler....since you know...he wasn't... ^.^ Born catholic. Raised catholic. Practiced christianity. “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator”. Adolf Hitler quotes Bismarck.Magnumatic said: I can't remember all of the verses off the top of my head that talk about slavery, but here are some: Leviticus 25:44-46 44If you want slaves, buy them from other nations 45or from the foreigners who live in your own country, and make them your property. 46You can own them, and even leave them to your children when you die, but do not make slaves of your own people or be cruel to them. Exodus 21:7 7A young woman who was sold by her father doesn't gain her freedom in the same way that a man does. 1 Peter 2:18 18Servants, you must obey your masters and always show respect to them. Do this, not only to those who are kind and thoughtful, but also to those who are cruel. Leviticus: Nothing against particular races. Actually black slaves came to America through their chieftains selling them in Africa, which goes against the value of this verse. Exodus: It happened. Women are still looked down upon in some cases of extremism in the Jewish and Christian faith. I don't understand it, and largely do not agree with it. 1 Peter: Well, butlers are servants. Heck, anyone in the service industry are in a way servants. Indentured Servants in the 1600 and 1700 were in no way slaves, they were promised land after a period of work for which they must serve a "master". Those of us who call ourselves Christians are also servants. Jesus who came before us was also a servant unto us. Edited for clarity Phoenix.Smileybone said: Please cite your sources. I am truly intrigued and wish to read further into this. Furthermore probability of what? lol Edit: Also, the U.S.S.R. went without religion... and look what happened to them D: Please note that I'm not trying to say that atheism makes anyone peaceful. It probably doesn't have much impact. But these numbers do show that religion makes no positive difference in criminality rate, as believers would like to believe. Although atheism doesn't claim to make people peaceful, countries with less religion, by default, will tend to be more peaceful. Of course, like anything, these numbers should be approached skeptically. Let me know what you think. Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: I'll raise this question again; who do you think is more violent and has a higher probability to create an act of murder/violence, a religious person who believes in a judgment day or someone who no fear of ever caught? First of all, you're apologizing away an awful lot of destruction caused by religion, and comparing it to what ONE atheist did. Second, you have no evidence to support what you said about Stalin. First of all your comparing what maybe 100 people did out of the 7 billion or so religious believers in this world. Second, I was only trying to compare two events and since atheism really hasn't been as popular throughout the ages, of course there aren't going to be many atrocities because there haven't been many atheists. ..." During the 1930s and 1940s in Stalin's Soviet Union, leadership fractured at all levels, not only within Stalin's "inner circle" but also within local and regional party machines (paralleling in some ways the neighborly quarrels and religious controversies that divided early modern communities). As power oscillated between different factions, purges were carried out in the name of Stalin, "Father of the Country," "the Great and Wise Teacher," "the Friend of Mankind," against the antifathers and betraying sons who had perverted the socialist program, the "enemies with party cards.""... Source: http://www.gendercide.org/case_stalin.html Wikipedia also mentions the killing of ethnic groups which include religious people such as the jews http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin#Religion Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Leviathan.Dubont said: inb4 Atheist Hitler....since you know...he wasn't... ^.^ Born catholic. Raised catholic. Practiced christianity. “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator”. Adolf Hitler quotes Ragnarok.Psyence said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Please cite your sources. I am truly intrigued and wish to read further into this. Furthermore probability of what? lol Edit: Also, the U.S.S.R. went without religion... and look what happened to them D: Please note that I'm not trying to say that atheism makes anyone peaceful. It probably doesn't have much impact. But these numbers do show that religion makes no positive difference in criminality rate, as believers would like to believe. Although atheism doesn't claim to make people peaceful, countries with less religion, by default, will tend to be more peaceful. Of course, like anything, these numbers should be approached skeptically. Let me know what you think. The only problem with that video really was that it pretty much compared Middle East which we all know is in a pretty much state of war. With South America which is 2nd world leading to a higher crime rate to Europe. Also, I'm pretty sure that the video did not list big nations such as the U.S., Canada, U.K., France and probably some others but I might have missed it. "Atheism causes people to do bad things," "Catholicism causes people to do bad things," "Christians do bad things," the same can be said for every type of belief. Atheism condones abortion, which is, without doubt a mass murdering of children. Catholicism brought about the Catholic Inquisition, which was also a horrible crime. Christianity influenced the crusades which was plain out idiotic murder of innocents for false relics in the name of Jesus Christ.
The fact of the matter is that everyone is human. Though it should never be an excuse in which we hide it is a truth that we cannot hide from. The only difference is that Christians are called not to sin, when Atheists have no moral obligations (though they may still have good morals). Well gn ppl. 12:03 a.m. gonna hit the sack.
Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: "Atheism causes people to do bad things," "Catholicism causes people to do bad things," "Christians do bad things," the same can be said for every type of belief. Atheism condones abortion, which is, without doubt a mass murdering of children. Catholicism brought about the Catholic Inquisition, which was also a horrible crime. Christianity influenced the crusades which was plain out idiotic murder of innocents for false relics in the name of Jesus Christ. The fact of the matter is that everyone is human. Though it should never be an excuse in which we hide it is a truth that we cannot hide from. The only difference is that Christians are called not to sin, when Atheists have no moral obligations (though they may still have good morals). What are you talking about? Atheism does not condone Abortion.. It does not condone anything. There are NO beliefs in Atheism. There is no belief system in Atheism. I am Atheist, and I do not support any type of abortion, besides using a condom. But you could also say that using a condom is massive genocide as well ^.^ If you want to talk about genocide and children.. Read the bible..
Did god not kill every first born male child in Egypt? Not the pharoah, Not the guy who defied god. He killed the children... No wonder Satan was cast out of heaven... I would have defied god too :) Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Pandemonium.Leonlionheart said: "Atheism causes people to do bad things," "Catholicism causes people to do bad things," "Christians do bad things," the same can be said for every type of belief. Atheism condones abortion, which is, without doubt a mass murdering of children. Catholicism brought about the Catholic Inquisition, which was also a horrible crime. Christianity influenced the crusades which was plain out idiotic murder of innocents for false relics in the name of Jesus Christ. The fact of the matter is that everyone is human. Though it should never be an excuse in which we hide it is a truth that we cannot hide from. The only difference is that Christians are called not to sin, when Atheists have no moral obligations (though they may still have good morals). What are you talking about? Atheism does not condone Abortion.. It does not condone anything. There are NO beliefs in Atheism. There is no belief system in Atheism. I am Atheist, and I do not support any type of abortion, besides using a condom. But you could also say that using a condom is massive genocide as well ^.^ Then you're not an atheist are you? You believe that a fetus is a form of human life and has its rights. Thats a belief, and to some extremists a complete belief system. No one is truly believes nothing. Generally speaking atheists treat a human fetus as not human at all but simply a part of the female body, not its own living entity. Though this is just a stereotype since "Atheism" has no system of beliefs. The fact of the matter is that everyone makes mistakes, some get more press than others because said mistake contradicts a set of rules that a certain set of people try to follow. Bismarck.Magnumatic said: If you want to talk about genocide and children.. Read the bible.. Did god not kill every first born male child in Egypt? Not the pharoah, Not the guy who defied god. He killed the children... No wonder Satan was cast out of heaven... I would have defied god too :) God talks about just punishment. Earlier in that very same book the Pharoah of Egypt killed every Jewish firstborn. Phoenix.Smileybone said: The only problem with that video really was that it pretty much compared Middle East which we all know is in a pretty much state of war. With South America which is 2nd world leading to a higher crime rate to Europe. Also, I'm pretty sure that the video did not list big nations such as the U.S., Canada, U.K., France and probably some others but I might have missed it. Lakshmi.Mabrook said: who do you think is more violent and has a higher probability to create an act of murder/violence, a religious person who believes in a judgment day or someone who no fear of ever caught? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question I suggest you read the first paragraph at least, because the next time you see people doing this, you'll realize more easily that either they're just not thinking, or they're purposefully trying to *** you... :) Asura.Leonlionheart said: Generally speaking atheists treat a human fetus as not human at all but simply a part of the female body, not its own living entity. This is an excuse used be pro-choice fanatics to justify abortion. This has nothing to do with Atheism At All. Atheism has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting abortion. The only belief in atheism is the disbelief in a deity. You can be atheist and be pro-life. You can also be theist and be pro-choice.
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Just because I want to post this...
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Bismarck.Magnumatic said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: Generally speaking atheists treat a human fetus as not human at all but simply a part of the female body, not its own living entity. This is an excuse used be pro-choice fanatics to justify abortion. This has nothing to do with Atheism At All. Atheism has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting abortion. The only belief in atheism is the disbelief in a deity. You can be atheist and be pro-life. You can also be theist and be pro-choice. The point is, Atheism is not tied to any one set of religions laws/rules. |
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