Dual Wield For DNC Lvl 20

Why isn't anyone talking about this part of the update?
am i reading it wrong ort will there not be a need for /NIN any more for dual wield

"- Dancers will be able to perform the ability "Cure Waltz" on non-party members.
- The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter."

Jobs that always dual wield: THF, RNG, WAR, BST,


so my discussion question is this,
Do these jobs /NIN for the blink or the dual wield stats?
and what hopes do you have for job combination now with /DNC dual wield?

There's an entire thread about the Dnc update, that's why.

WAR for the blink because of damage output pulling so much hate, BST for the blink because of survivability.
THF with BOTH, dual wield increases damage capacity and TP gain ever so slightly apparently, and shadows help them solo by adding more survivability.
RNG is blink because they pull so much hate.

what about pld dual wield,
do you think there will be as much debate on off hand weapons now as with war and thf?

also, will this make war another type of tank again like /nin to 40-50 tanking, but more like pld tank. can you see the /tells to a war. /nin or /dnc please"?

In pts and and merits Dnc mainly use /nin for the dual wield to increase TP gain. While Dnc will get thier own native dual wield trait, nin will still be the subjob of choice for soloing due to shadows. In a pt situation, you will most likely see dnc subbing sam post 60 for meditate and at 80 for meditate and sekkanoki. Before 60 i can see dnc subbing war in pts where they are not pulling or shadows are not required to save healing from AoE attacks/spells.

I can also see a few other viable subs situationally after the update for dnc, those being Thf (SA/TA/TH) Drk(att. bonus, Last resort, souleater, an additional stun mostly) Aside from those 2 in very rare situations, expect to see alot of Dnc subbing sam or war after the update.

Really, the main thing that will effect this will be when dnc gets dual wield II. Using just dual wield boasts very little, especially given a War's ability with G.axe and the bonuses from the 2hd update given what seems like so long ago. Due to the 2hd update its very rare to see a war dual wielding anymore.

On the note of a war/dnc tanking in xp pts, it could very well be viable, but given the closed-mindedness of the majority of the ffxi community, i dont see it happening. It would take quite a few things for it to be viable; multi-hit weapons, if the JA Retaliator(i think its called) will work while dual wielding( i have no clue since im not a war), and there would have to be no pld or nin's around. Especially after 50 when war/sam + GA + Hasso makes war such a better DD thank a tank.

Also take a look at the fact that the only thing changing in the update for war/dnc would be dual wield. Do you see war/dnc tanking in pts now ? For that matter how often to do see war/nin tanking now and /nin already offers dual wield +damage mitigation via shadows. war/nin vs. war/dnc (given that both offer the same lvl of dual wield) which would you rather have ? a tank that can avoid damage via shadows, or one that straight tanks and heals itself via samba/waltz ?


just my 2cents

thf/dnc high evasion with abuilty to cure and speed up hits with haste samba oh and lower mob evansion with faint and steps and lower def. already lot thfs do /dnc but was bit a nerf not being able dual weild now it be like mnk/dnc with hgher eva. dnc/drk self cureing for souleater dnc/drg with haste earing insane hiting speed and jumps for bonus dmg/tp dnc/war double att guess dnc/sam meditate war/dnc ok but not likly beat 2 handed weapon bst/dnc umm might get killed faster from greater enemity gain. just off top my head


edit dnc/mnk might make comback with chakra focus counter dodge umm not sure what else sub blow? dunno if dnc gets that normally

i do, like how i tanked as blu from 10-37, just because i could stack evade, vit, and /war for voking
so i see war/dnc tanking hard from 10-50 and better then a pld.
this said because everyone seems to think that damage is a better trait to have on pld then max stacking vit

oh blu/dnc that one aspir samba with cues from tp saveing on need to mp cure with native hi dmg managment as is (not gonna mention rdm/dnc.....)

Haste samba wont come into play /dnc until 90. though i do see the viability of thf/dnc before that, although curing and sambas/steps will cut into a thf's TP for SATA WS on a tank which could lower thier spike damage.

w/o the Haste earring dnc/drg i dont see happening, even given the jumps for a small boost in tp and a slight enmity reduction(high jump lowers enmity for those that dont know)

I want Dual wield trait for a blu T_T

u also get a att bonus with /drg what dnc needs every lil bit it can get. thf/dnc iim thinking mor ealogn soloing and campain becoing goddly with nolonger need of shadows and tool cost and in campoain the xp bonus from curing and lack of shadows being real use most times. In a party it might give thf a alt role to help get parys higher as a buff/enfeebler with curing abuitly with hate managment tools and soem dmg out put abuilty. My 67 thf can ws for around 1k dmg with SA TA and i think /dnc with givew a acc bounus if i remember


edit: oh and thf wont need blood bolts/ resting to heal up for farming

so y not use this over rdm/nin too, and EVERY solo moment in the game, i find the curing to be alot better then blinks while soloing because 3 blinks used turns into 4-5 hits trying to get the blinks back up since the last update change

war/dnc tanking from 10-40 (given you see it tanking "hard" from 10-50) wont change from war/dnc tanking now. dual wield will be given to dnc @20, which means /dnc wont get it till 40. /Dnc doesnt get its first Waltz until 30, and this waltz is relative in power to a cure2. So from 10-30 all /dnc offers war at any point is drain samba I which fails harder and harder in my opinion once drain samba II is available (35 dnc main) So, im gonna just state my opinion once more and say that a war will very rarely out-tank a COMPETENT pld at any lvl over 17, given its ability to cure itself with cure2.

Also, Pld's max stacking Vit and Def do have diminishing returns once both stats reach a certain lvl. If i remember correctly.

Because sometimes you have to solo things over LV60.

The main reason a Rdm subs nin while soloing is so that they DON'T GET HIT. The typical rdm solo method is DoT and Kiting.. a solo rdm 98% of the time wont be engaging a mob to get tp to cure themselves, and wow, imagine that... rdm already can cure itself. You will also be swapping staves frequently during rdm solo to help land spells such a bind(ice staff) Gravity(wind staff) Slow(earth staff) and swapping the respective staff in for the occasional nuke.

Well ***. My priority for re-leveling subjobs just changed drastically for THF. It looks like /DNC is next on the list.

DNC's new native dual wield trait addresses the main thing I hate about THF/DNC: the attack speed is too slow in comparison to /NIN. Assuming DNC will receive Dual Wield II somewhere in the level 30-40 range, I can see myself getting a lot more use out of the subjob. /NIN will still be the primary subjob when survivability is a real concern due to AoEs or hard-hitting mobs, but not all situations need /NIN's degree of damage mitigation.

I missed the boat on the Magian daggers, but I've been putting a lot of effort into them lately. When working on the daggers, I don't /NIN because I need the shadows. I sub NIN because I want the speed of DWII and the ability to use at least one dagger that doesn't suck. I couldn't care less if EP/DC mobs get in a few hits on me. I just want a reasonable killing speed. With the new /DNC, I could now get the benefits of Dual Wield as well as the ability to cheaply heal back the piddly amounts of damage I take. For this kind of situation (as well as things like Campaign, low-level mob farming, etc.), /DNC is now a far more viable subjob choice.

Although I still believe /NIN will be the preferred THF subjob for exp (especially if the THF in question is geared well), /DNC could now be a viable option for the 76-89 stretch (until Dual Wield III from /NIN at 90THF). Shadows don't offer a whole helluva lot if mobs aren't swinging much at the THF, and /DNC's small cures, erases, evasion/defense debuffs, and Accuracy Bonus I might prove to be more useful than /NIN's shadows in some party situations. It'll be interesting to see how it works out.

^ this.

A Rdm soling Guivre or Bune for instance will not wanna stand there and get hit by it /dnc just to get tp to cure the damage lost from those hits. much easier to avoid the hits, Bind, throw up stoneskin, recast shadows. Hoping Bind sticks this whole time so u have time to recast all this + DoTs/debuffs and move out of range before you get your face chewed off

Huh?
Ever since the 2handed update years ago... like 99.9% of WARs are GA only

And if you're playing RNG right... you're sub WAR with a Fire/Vulcans... or sometimes sub SAM

sorry, just tossing that out there

good point,
i like weird combinations
i loved blu/war tanking to 37.
and super loved blm/nin taru to 60 dual wield +int wands
i do like 20-50 sam/dnc


so next thing to think about are the lvl 30-50 combos for cap sub jobs
or just say fawk it and levelsync 25 and MMM it

Midgardsormr.Soki said:
so y not use this over rdm/nin too, and EVERY solo moment in the game, i find the curing to be alot better then blinks while soloing because 3 blinks used turns into 4-5 hits trying to get the blinks back up since the last update change

The main reason a Rdm subs nin while soloing is so that they DON'T GET HIT. The typical rdm solo method is DoT and Kiting.. a solo rdm 98% of the time wont be engaging a mob to get tp to cure themselves, and wow, imagine that... rdm already can cure itself. You will also be swapping staves frequently during rdm solo to help land spells such a bind(ice staff) Gravity(wind staff) Slow(earth staff) and swapping the respective staff in for the occasional nuke.


only time u see diff is like rdm useing cermonial daggers and enspell for dmg so no tp given or least use be dunno if it changed (btw quote wasnt working for some reason)

low levels, not talking anything over 50-60 at this time

Huh?
Ever since the 2handed update years ago... like 99.9% of WARs are GA only

And if you're playing RNG right... you're sub WAR with a Fire/Vulcans... or sometimes sub SAM

sorry, just tossing that out there

i got blm. brd 75, not much else over 60, mostly because i cant seem to get into a good endgame LS
so i love to PT levels 30-60 where almost every level can offer something new with main, gear, or sub.

woah woah woah did i see war always dual wields? wtf is that

hmm just a thought, gonna see lot peeeps looking to redo DM for dual weild earring (it is DM that it comes from right?)



war/dnc maybe if got temp torque and multi hit hand axe or guess ridell/joy toy.... maaaaaybe could be useful. still be hard press to match up with 2 hand weapon als o 2 of wars main jas make it take dmb like a wet paper towel IE agressor and berserk no way keep up with the dmg taken with waltz

All good points, and ones ive been thinking about myself for lvling my thf from 75-80. With Brd doing most of the pulling in late game xp/merits subbing nin on thf really only has the benefit of dual wield, and occasionally avoiding the stray hit from a SA ws that doesnt finish a mob. The only real concern at this moment for me, if how things will work at higher lvl xp pts (75-80)... will the mobs hit harder ? be more resistant to brd sleep ? Will these mobs force a thf to become the main pulling job in these camps ? in these cases /nin will be more viable as a sub for pulling options.

On the dual wield II note: nin gets DW at 10, dnc gets at 20. Nin gets DW2 at 25, so it would be reasonable to expect dnc to get DW2 at 35+. DW3 is attained at Nin45 so if dnc is allowed this tier as well, i could see it at 60+.

maybe i missed this some where but i didn't see anything said about reverse flourish. as long as you still get this and its not gimped as /dnc that's even more tp for any jobs subbing it. 60 tp for the cost of 20tp is a rather nice trade especially if you are talking about the thf/dnc for lowering eva even more.

moar tp if u /sam

it wont be reverse flourish that is gimped /dnc. its the way steps and finishing moves are already gimped /dnc. a landed step = 1 move while /dnc. thats 50tp spent (barring a miss) to get back 60tp. Not worth the time or effort in my opinion