Really Drgs?

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Really Drgs?
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-09 16:33:55
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Aurum is a lousy choice for Jump :x High Jump not so much.

Askar would be better than AF+1 for Jump. They're fairly close in terms of average per-Jump damage (Askar would obviously win easily for High Jump), though it should still favor Askar. The real draw is the increased WS frequency.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-09 16:44:22
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Since I've alluded to this several times, I should probably elaborate. DRG DPS is split into several components:

TP phase and the resulting weaponskills. This is the most commonly modeled component, common to all DD jobs.

Meditate and the resulting WS. This usually goes without mention as it's pure WS damage with no other factors, and it can thus be (silently) acknowledged without being modeled unless you're aiming for a fairly complete model (generally comparing SAM to /SAM, or SAM or /SAM to a non-2hander job). Also, this component may not even be applicable depending on the situation.

Jump, High Jump, and their resulting WS. In reality Jump + WS and High Jump + WS are two separate components due to potentially differing builds, but we can temporarily regard them as a single component. Like the TP phase component, STR and attack (and unlike TP, VIT) influence only one portion or the other; DEX, acc, and DA when applied to the non-WS portion affect the whole component. DA is thus more powerful in comparison to STR/attack(/VIT) than it initially appears because we have an often unnamed "Jump:WS" split to keep in mind as well as our TP:WS split.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-09 16:50:17
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When I click queue for update it does nothing! Well, tells me wait 30 mins blahblahblah!
 Shiva.Xet
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By Shiva.Xet 2010-06-09 17:32:34
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Aurum is a lousy choice for Jump :x High Jump not so much.

Askar would be better than AF 1 for Jump. They're fairly close in terms of average per-Jump damage (Askar would obviously win easily for High Jump), though it should still favor Askar. The real draw is the increased WS frequency.

This is an insanly good point.... I will swap out my Aurum for Askar on Jump.

It's maybe merits but it's amazing how many drgs dont even use jump alot. When i get parsed my JA damage is usually over 50% more then the next drg/drgs in my pt.
 Gilgamesh.Shadowreapper
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By Gilgamesh.Shadowreapper 2010-06-10 05:41:08
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Town gear maybe but still, amemet nq, spkie necklace?

And no, i'm not playing on snes lol
Just my pc is outdated.

And to jump >> Ares cuirass :D
But as long as you use your af feet it's fine.
 
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 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2010-06-10 06:21:32
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Gilgamesh.Shadowreapper said:
Town gear maybe but still, amemet nq, spkie necklace?

And no, i'm not playing on snes lol
Just my pc is outdated.

And to jump >> Ares cuirass :D
But as long as you use your af feet it's fine.

Dont jump in Ares Cuirass if it causes you to lose your 6hit though. Not that you cant easily cheaply get extra TP due to Barone Pants...

Whatever gear you wear, make sure you're not *** your 6hit up, so your jumps need to get 16.7 TP or more every time, if not, 6hit is failing on your jumps and you need to make a 7th hit.
 
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-10 06:53:37
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Asura.Bartimaeus said:
No excuse for nq amemet and spike necklace. I'm pretty gimpy when it comes to endgame anything, but even I know that's just lol.

Honestly.

Fang earrings too.
 Ifrit.Duanyu
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By Ifrit.Duanyu 2010-06-10 07:00:12
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Asura.Bartimaeus said:
Omg no my six hit. Holy ***my life is over.

/endlife
 Shiva.Xet
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By Shiva.Xet 2010-06-10 14:19:52
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I posted my gear sets for tp and ws (drakes) apart from PCC and obvious things like heca legs/head are ppl happy (lolhappy on ffxiah) with it? I accept if it can be made better with little effort and i just messed up but i think its fine.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-06-10 14:27:48
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I think it looks good, you know what you need and can work on it but for now it looks good to me. maybe get a thunder ring for WS and a Flame for when you do STR but other than that it looks good. Ares legs if you do salvage though. Tiphia sting if you need the accuracy, blitz when you don't and cuch for Drakes/TP but it's not needed but nice to have when you can afford it.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-10 15:58:30
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Instead of making a whole new thread i quickly wanted to ask a couple new questions about my sets.

Now that i obtained my Cuirass (still havent got my legs -.- 0/52 on 35), i built up a penta set.

Need some opinions.

Also, on drg in events where i HAVE to sub /nin, tping in Ares Cuirass, is that acceptable or should i use homam.

Here are my sets, critique please!

TP (/sam):


Drakesbane (NEED ARES LEGS!):


Penta :


Jump :



My main concern is jump~ Do i jump in curaiss + barone legs to keep my 6hit? or jump in askar body.
Not sure if hte calculation balances
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-06-10 16:58:39
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I know this doesn't help or answer your question at all..but what augments did you get on your Fay?
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-10 19:14:12
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if you click teh set i listed it.
Dmg+5 str+2 dex+2

i was working on the OaT pole but sorta gave up due to the difficulty in getting assistance for my slime
 Phoenix.Miraun
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2010-06-11 07:59:21
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Odin.Lowblow said:
Instead of making a whole new thread i quickly wanted to ask a couple new questions about my sets.

Now that i obtained my Cuirass (still havent got my legs -.- 0/52 on 35), i built up a penta set.

Need some opinions.

Also, on drg in events where i HAVE to sub /nin, tping in Ares Cuirass, is that acceptable or should i use homam.

Here are my sets, critique please!

TP (/sam):


Drakesbane (NEED ARES LEGS!):


Penta :


Jump :



My main concern is jump~ Do i jump in curaiss barone legs to keep my 6hit? or jump in askar body.
Not sure if hte calculation balances

Drakes set, I don't know what augmnents you have on your head or what race you are, so I don't know if you're reaching the crit cap to recommend minuet over delta.

With that penta set, you'll need to be eatting sushi or something, you have nearly no ACC in that build to make it viable.

Jumping, Ares is the best jumping TP body, hands down. Use barone legs to keep your 6 hit.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-11 15:16:45
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You've got 407 acc in your TP set even without the Spinel if I counted right, so you could easily afford to switch to Blitz Ring.

Heca hands should be better than Tarasque for Penta, I'll look at the rest of your attack swaps in a bit. Look at Fierce Belt as a possible replacement for Swordbelt (really easy to get too), and also Astrolabe + Assault Earring/Aesir.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-11 19:40:49
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Yar im trying to get the belt and assault earring for sure, but low on cash from body atm lol.
And aesir i want after seeing a sam get 40tp back from penta, but i gotta finish toau lol.

But ya my main question is the Str vs Atk ratio in penta.

Also night, on /sam 6hit build, do i have ot keep askar body on for my jump macro.

btw, my penta build has a decent amoutn of acc. So i would work fine with pizza.
Torque, feet, earing, ammo, legs and then of course traits, a+ weapon and all the dex. And im rccking 4 str/dex ws acc+15 crit+% on head
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-11 19:58:33
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You can afford to drop Askar for Ares if you're ok with losing a true 6-hit after TP reset. If that's an issue to you, you'll need to look into either using Askar or Barone for Jump depending on your acc needs or changing your TP set so that it has sufficient STP to compensate.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-11 20:00:53
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Im gonna look into using barone on jump so i can max out my dmg with ares and keep my 6hit.
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 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2010-06-11 21:04:37
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Hmm just remember that you will only loose 6hit if you are fighting colibris and other specific targets. And that's a small chance at it too on those birds. Let's say 33% chance if you had hate fulltime. I don't do this (wear barone or askar on jump), and my avarage number of hits to ws is around 5.10 on some parses i just checked here. The actual performance loss due tp reset should be even lower than 1/10. That 1/10 also figures tp held as to not overkill (i usually do overkill though lol), a DA procing at the last round and untimed jumps (you jump and a round goes off just as you hit the macro).
Is this loss so bad? I mean, is the decrease in performance from tp reset higher than the increase in jump damage? I'm not sure.

One other thing is why are you wearing att on penta? You should do with penta what you do with drakes. With moar str! Never did any math though. But bah there is no reason whatsoever to use penta lol.

Oh yeah one small thing (maybe you are thinking this?). I would not use cuch on ws when you get Ares legs. As of now, the only thing it is doing is boosting your damage from crit and str. It's not boosting your acc, specially with that galea there (which btw has dex or more acc and att?). If it's dex, i would remove that cuch from ws right now lol.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-11 21:08:50
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I dont know what ot make of what you are saying.
Due to penta suffering mass Atk down penalties, attack is a beautiful thing to stack on penta for consistancy.

As for not using cuchu on drakes? /facepalm.

Dunno what to say
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-11 21:12:47
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If Cuch isn't improving your critrate on Drakes and it's not helping your hitrate either then it's a poor use of the slot. I don't think an attack penalty for Penta has ever been conclusively proven... If it exists then stacking attack would very situationally be appropriate (our gear options are different from SAM's after all), otherwise I'd push for essentially the same setup as Drakes with maybe one or two changes accounting for the differing WSC.
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 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2010-06-11 21:17:00
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is it even proved to have att penalty? And if it does, it's only on the first hit. From what i've seen around SE removed that long ago (from both penta and guillo).
Quote:
As for not using cuchu on drakes? /facepalm.

Do you need it's dex to reach new crit tier?
Yes -> wear it
No -> why bother?

You currently have 433 acc (from what i could gather) on your drakes set. Thats completely overkill imo. If you don't need the dex, then the only thing helping your damage is str. Foragers and the likes will do more for you.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-11 21:21:57
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Ahh i see what your saying.

But i think im... what.. 1-2 dex off the 117 sweet spot?
Which Ares legs should get for me.
So i should be safe using it at that point, no?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-11 21:34:40
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For birds, yes. For pretty much anything else of significance, probably not.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2010-06-11 21:51:17
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True true.

Last question, due to it being missed.(i think)

MY tp setup. when im NOT /sam. Should i use Homam body or my Ares body ?
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2010-06-11 21:51:47
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you are currently over the sweet spot for colibris now. 69+49 isn't it? Do you use dex on your galea too? If you do, you should have +53 dex right now and you only need +48 at colibris.

If you removed cuch for an att cape you will loose 1% crit rate, but get a nice boost from attack. Cuch can at best increase your crit by 4%, an attack cape should increase your damage for about the same of what that % of crit will. Considering they increase your damage equally, if you can cap your crit while keeping the back piece as an attack piece, you will be boosting your damage more.
 Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn
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By Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn 2010-06-11 21:57:31
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69 base dex if he is mithra i think?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-11 22:09:35
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Screenshots say he's Taru, so 65 DEX.

EDIT: Depends on your hitrate; probably ok with Ares assuming it's something like Einherjar.
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