There is a difference, but they're often confused (Usually by people who want to seem smart by using fancy big words). Pretty much the More haste you have, the more you get out of adding more, up until the respective Magic, equipment and total caps. At least that's what I've been lead to believe.
Even if that wasn't true, I'm with Flion, it makes me hit ***faster. Nuff said.
Thats not an "increasing return" though. The rate of attack speed being changed at which each 1% added is not changing. It's always remaining the same. You're simply stacking that same 1% over and over again. The 1% value itself never changes, there's just more of them. lol
Do I use Marine Boots with minimal Dex, Str, Vit and HP, or do I use something that will make me hit faster. Not that hard. Do the Ricky Bobby in FFXI:
Ok, so, as THF, lv 53 (DWII), with Corsair's Kukri (Dly 206) and Hornetneedle (Dly 150) and 10% Haste (Rapparee 4%, Swift Belt 4%, Bravo's Subligar 2% for TP gear) What is my actual combined delay, It doesn't seem to do much yet, But it's there for what it does do.
You guys are also wrong about haste samba. It is counted as haste, melee haste, not delay reduction. It stacks w/ haste for attack speed. It's JA haste, like hasso. It only effects melee swings, but it is haste.
Thats not an "increasing return" though. The rate of attack speed being changed at which each 1% added is not changing. It's always remaining the same. You're simply stacking that same 1% over and over again. The 1% value itself never changes, there's just more of them. lol
It a calls for open mind really. We talk about haste here, not delay reduction.
Haste effect on reducing delay is linear, on that, on a numeric basis we agree.
But that is not what we care about. It's the speed gain that is to be noted.
In other game, where it's actually linear, 100% haste would mean that you hit twice a much only. And THAT is linear.
Reduction in delay increase the number of hits on an exponential way. Technically, a weapon with 99% reduction delay will hit 100 times more. (It's capped before that, but that's not the point here)
So when you refer to haste about actual delay reduction, ok it's linear, but people don't give a *** about these numbers.
Therefor we can agree on :
FFXI HASTE = Exponential
Delay reduction = Linear
When people speak with exponential haste, they speak about the actual effect of haste...The effect on # of hits.
While every haste % will always recude de same number of delay. It won't for the actual speed gain on melee attack speed.
Do a graph for haste versus actual speed gain, and you will see. But here is the basic.
You guys are also wrong about haste samba. It is counted as haste, melee haste, not delay reduction. It stacks w/ haste for attack speed. It's JA haste, like hasso. It only effects melee swings, but it is haste.
It stacks because it's an effect on the mob being fought, not on a character, which, like herpes, is passed from DNC to to mob via stabbing, then from mob to PT member via stabbing. It effects individual hits, you miss and you are only as fast as everything except Haste Samba allows you to be.
Thats not an "increasing return" though. The rate of attack speed being changed at which each 1% added is not changing. It's always remaining the same. You're simply stacking that same 1% over and over again. The 1% value itself never changes, there's just more of them. lol
Lakshmi.Hypnotizd said:
I don't think anyone has ever said its exponential. Haste is better the more you have until the cap.
Delay reduction(and dual wield) is also exponential. It just is individual from haste.
If you took 50% delay reduction and compared its attack speed with 51% delay reduction, you'd get the same difference in attack speed as 50% haste and 51% haste.
You guys are also wrong about haste samba. It is counted as haste, melee haste, not delay reduction. It stacks w/ haste for attack speed. It's JA haste, like hasso. It only effects melee swings, but it is haste.
It stacks because it's an effect on the mob being fought, not on a character, which, like herpes, is passed from DNC to to mob via stabbing, then from mob to PT member via stabbing. It effects individual hits, you miss and you are only as fast as everything except Haste Samba allows you to be.
It still counts as haste when reducing your attack speed and on DW jobs, if you have good gear or are using proper food, this even only applies once in a blue moon, as you'd have to miss both attacks (and any double attacks or kick attacks, too) not to get the effect of samba.
w/ 95% hitrate, missing twice in a row .05 x .05 = 0.25% chance, yea, not often.
So, now we have 79% delay and 80% delay
500 x .21 = 105
500 x .2 = 100
1/(100/105) = 5.00% increase
Proof that his math is wrong, yet again.
1% haste is right, 500 x .99 = 495
20% haste is wrong, 500 x .80 = 400, not 100
21% haste is wrong, 500 x .79 = 395, not 105
You said 79%/80% delay. Meaning 20%/21% haste.
Even then, where do you get the whole 1/(previous delay/new delay) formula? Is it to try to prove your point? Because thats not haste at all. Thats the change in haste percentage, not actual increase in haste effect at all. Having a lower denominator increase would have a higher total increase (1/3 > 1/4 > 1/5 in that case)
Add 1% haste, you lower delay by 1% of the total delay (thats delay of the weapon - whatever % you happen to have to subtract/add to the delay). Haste has a 1:1 ratio, not 1:1/change ratio that you assume it to be.
Tigerwoods said:
OP, let's say you have 5 dollars. You take 5 dollars away. now let's say you have 5,000,000 dollars. You take 5 dollars away.
In which scenario did you lose a higher % of money?
Delay works the same way, you have the same physical number taken away, but you have a larger % of your delay taken away, which is a higher % increase in attack speed.
Oh wait, you just admitted that your whole assumptions is based by change in effect, not the effect itself.
Lets put it this way.
GDP in USA increased by 5% in 2008. It went from 500 Billion to 525 Billion in 2008. It increased by 5% again in 2009. It went from 525 Billion to 551.25 Billion. You are saying that there is no increase or decrease in change, so there is no growth. I say that there is growth because it added another 26.25 Billion into the economy, instead of another 25 Billion. In case you are confused, do the math. I know you have a calculator, why don't you use it for once?
Sorry to say Tiger, but all haste stack affect delay reduction linearly and making haste effect exponential. Some sort of haste affect melee only, yes. like Samba March and Hasso.
You will always get the same delay reduction for every 1% haste you add,
Delay reduction = linear
Haste gain from it = exponential.
Everyone who thinks haste is linear did you watch this video?
For real? Look at the video before you use it as an example lol. The video is set at a higher play speed than it was recorded as to make the video playlength shorter.
Want proof? Look at the animations of spells/songs.
For real? Look at the video before you use it as an example lol. The video is set at a higher play speed than it was recorded as to make the video playlength shorter.
I think you are playing with a lot of lag
Haste doesn't change the animation speed of the songs and spells once they're casted. Video editing does. It's playing at a higher rate. Sorry... Try again.
For real? Look at the video before you use it as an example lol. The video is set at a higher play speed than it was recorded as to make the video playlength shorter.
I think you are playing with a lot of lag
I'm sorry, I didn't know that you can tell the difference between 1% haste by sight alone.
So... Everyone runs around saying haste is exponential, but why is that?
500 delay with 1% haste lowers the delay by 5.
24% haste lowers your delay to 380 from 500.
25% haste lowers your delay to 375 from 500.
Every 1% haste has the same effect on delay.
The term exponential refers to a curved rate of return that gets either greater or lesser at a faster rate the more you add to it. As you can plainly see in the example i showed, this is not the case. If it were, then going from 24 to 25% haste would have given a larger or smaller return than 5 delay, but as we can see it's a constant.
Yes, obviously the more haste you stack the better because it further reduces your delay by a constant amount, but it is in no way exponential. Every 1% you add will have the same exact effect on your delay as the first 1% you added. So... Why do people run around saying it's exponential?
So please, use a different word! Every time i read someone stating haste is exponential i want to slap them. It has a constant rate of return. It is a straight line. It is not exponential.
In case people still don't get it... This is a graph of an exponential return.
Here is a straight line graph, which is exactly how haste returns act:
(Note that these graphs weren't made by me and in no way reflect the actual values of haste, or have anything to do with haste. They are merely being used as a visual explanation of the difference between exponential and constant returns. Haste is NOT exponential.)
If haste were truly exponential, then adding 1% haste would do something like lower your delay by 5, while the 1% difference between 24 and 25 haste would lower your delay by like 15.
