Korpg said:
"Illegal" in the sense that its against the ToS. Worst SE can do would be to sue you for taking their copywrite and transforming it into an image for your own self promotion (regardless of making a profit or not). I seriously doubt that SE will take that action because it A) costs too much money, and B) hurts their reputation with gamers.
The part about international copywrite laws is an exception of the fact though. International laws are very hard about copywrite infringements, to the point that you have to pay out the *** if caught. In Japan, you can get 15 years in jailtime + have to pay.....I believe.....100 million yen or so. This could be using windower also, something as minor as that. They don't care, if you do anything illegally, you are pretty much screwed in that context.
The part about international copywrite laws is an exception of the fact though. International laws are very hard about copywrite infringements, to the point that you have to pay out the *** if caught. In Japan, you can get 15 years in jailtime + have to pay.....I believe.....100 million yen or so. This could be using windower also, something as minor as that. They don't care, if you do anything illegally, you are pretty much screwed in that context.
What you need to realize is any violation you speak of, be it modifying dats, viewing data, even reverse engineering to create an emulated server or using third party hacks to exploit the game's mechanics are only infringing their ToS and policy, therefore any punishment will only come from SE. We're under their jurisdiction, not federal law.
Korpg said:
so I'm just wanting to question the forum rules a little.
Really? If I didn't know better I'd say you were a troll here to cause unncessary drama and flood the thread with meaningless and hollow posts with little to no merit or legitimacy.
Korpg said:
Thats promotion of a tool that takes copywrite protected files and change them into....well....anything. Its still against the ToS. Its still against international copywrite laws. It still can give SE an excuse to sue this site and shut it down (if they really wanted to, but who knows, they might if it is serious enough).
What you're forgetting is the credibility of using this site or anyone's posts or pictures here has absolutely zero credibility. Using outside context to pass judgment within their own game where their only jurisdiction lies is silly. If your point were true then IGE and every other gil selling site would be shut down. But they're not. The best SE can do is shut them down in their own domain: FFXI.
Korpg said:
But, since I know people are going to see this post and think "Korpg is talking, lets not read what he says" and proceed to flame away, go ahead. My points are valid, and seriously should be considered by Jaerik and Scragg.
I read your posts and taken them into consideration but they have no merit. All I see is a tool causing drama making piss poor attempts to convince others that model viewers or the windower and it's plugins are "illegal". If this truly was a problem for this website, then we wouldn't have any gilseller advertisements, but alas that's what keeps this place alive.
Korpg said:
My points are not valid
Fix'd
Jaerik said:
The irony of people arguing that Windower is cheating on a FFXIAH.com message board never ceases to amuse me.
You guys do know we're the same people, right? The core technology behind Windower, and the core technology behind FFXIAH.com, were both written by Cliff, one of our site admins. Hell, even I was around during most of the original development of Windower. (Leave it to a samurai to dream up seeing group members' TP.) The maintenance of the Windower code base has since been taken over by another development group with a slightly different ideology, but the point is the same.
Did you know that at one point, the extended macro system that Windower has now was actually a fully-featured reactive scripting system? You could automate your entire character. You could conceivably teach it how to pull, how to buff and heal your group when they needed it, how to fight mobs, even how to automatically do missions and quests, and then give those scripts to other people. I still have a copy of the prototype -- it works quite well.
Did you know that if we wanted to, we could so dramatically improve the Crafting section on FFXIAH.com that it could automatically compute the exact best personalized money-making synth for you at any moment, based off over a dozen existing market figures, day/crystal combinations, and your players' synth skills? We have the data -- it wouldn't be hard to implement.
But the scripting system for Windower was never released, and you will never see that kind of crafting functionality on FFXIAH.com.
Why not?
As per my previous post in this thread, because Terms of Service agreements are not legally binding documents, the only "rules" in FF: Online are what any given GM tells any given person on any given day. Everything else is just guidelines. But what will make SE start banning people indiscriminately is if a particular tool starts to give enough of an unfair advantage that they begin to lose subscribers over it. As such, it is our duty as 3rd party developers to make sure our tools never cross that line.
But to sit on an FFXIAH.com message board and accuse Windower users of "cheating," due to some non-existent ethical violation, is quite simply laughable.
You guys do know we're the same people, right? The core technology behind Windower, and the core technology behind FFXIAH.com, were both written by Cliff, one of our site admins. Hell, even I was around during most of the original development of Windower. (Leave it to a samurai to dream up seeing group members' TP.) The maintenance of the Windower code base has since been taken over by another development group with a slightly different ideology, but the point is the same.
Did you know that at one point, the extended macro system that Windower has now was actually a fully-featured reactive scripting system? You could automate your entire character. You could conceivably teach it how to pull, how to buff and heal your group when they needed it, how to fight mobs, even how to automatically do missions and quests, and then give those scripts to other people. I still have a copy of the prototype -- it works quite well.
Did you know that if we wanted to, we could so dramatically improve the Crafting section on FFXIAH.com that it could automatically compute the exact best personalized money-making synth for you at any moment, based off over a dozen existing market figures, day/crystal combinations, and your players' synth skills? We have the data -- it wouldn't be hard to implement.
But the scripting system for Windower was never released, and you will never see that kind of crafting functionality on FFXIAH.com.
Why not?
As per my previous post in this thread, because Terms of Service agreements are not legally binding documents, the only "rules" in FF: Online are what any given GM tells any given person on any given day. Everything else is just guidelines. But what will make SE start banning people indiscriminately is if a particular tool starts to give enough of an unfair advantage that they begin to lose subscribers over it. As such, it is our duty as 3rd party developers to make sure our tools never cross that line.
But to sit on an FFXIAH.com message board and accuse Windower users of "cheating," due to some non-existent ethical violation, is quite simply laughable.
Next time read this. Although not relating to the windower directly, you're pretty much pulling the same act.
