Omen Findings

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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-03-03 09:30:27
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I think 18 man runs will be absurd trying to get any cards.
Mini objectives will become nearly impossible to complete.

1. Make 54 Physical Weaponskills
2. Make 36 skillchains

3. Complete 54 Critical Hits
4. Heal 500 hp 30 times

54 weaponskills should be insanely easy to do if you're using weak stuff like fast blade. 18 people means each person only needs to ws 3x.

Not sure where you're getting 36 skillchains from. Its normally 6, so 6 x3 (assuming its tripled for each group of 6) is only 18 skillchains. That's still annoyingly irritating, but we don't particularly know if that will scale the same way you posted.


You don't have enough mobs
18 ppl are probably 1/2 ~ 2/3 pug
coordination would be poor
backline jobs won't be doing Weaponskills.

I agree coordination is poor. There's also no indication the objectives will increase per party size. It would be reasonable if it did, but they could also just make monster HP scale with players, as they normally do. That, or add more monsters.

Oh, and backline jobs very well should be using weaponskills. Corsair can use Tactician's/Sam roll on fodder floors, rather than chaos etc, and then Mages can pull out their weapon 1-2x and use moonlight... Not challenging.
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 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2017-03-03 09:51:56
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I don't think they'd scale the objectives that way, given that there are only 16 enemies on floors 1 and 2, making it impossible to do "kill X foes" with 17 or 18 people.
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 Sylph.Shadowlina
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-03-03 10:22:03
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
I don't think they'd scale the objectives that way, given that there are only 16 enemies on floors 1 and 2, making it impossible to do "kill X foes" with 17 or 18 people.
dependent on if its 7+ people the first 2 rooms layout dont change.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-03-03 10:39:28
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I agree coordination is poor. There's also no indication the objectives will increase per party size. It would be reasonable if it did, but they could also just make monster HP scale with players, as they normally do. That, or add more monsters.

Oh, and backline jobs very well should be using weaponskills. Corsair can use Tactician's/Sam roll on fodder floors, rather than chaos etc, and then Mages can pull out their weapon 1-2x and use moonlight... Not challenging.

backline jobs rarely do ws because they have low acc and won't build tp.

I would be surprised if sweetwater mobs hp scaled. Typically don't just the boss hp scale?
Frankly fitting 18x players in the first 2 zones is going to be challenging already.

The more I think about it, the more I expect/hope that they keep the current caps. So requirements would not go above 18 for anything.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-03-03 11:14:20
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I'm in agreement with everything you're saying.

I wouldn't be surprised if it allowed you to enter into Omen with 18 people, but everyone is instanced into different zones of 6 players each (hard to believe, but possible). The arena for the boss floor is already small as it is. That would be fairly annoying for 18 people in that small floor.

But meh.
 Fenrir.Sathicus
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By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-03-03 12:08:22
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When I play SCH if you asked me to get out my club and start WSing instead of doing ***that mattered I'd prob just laugh at you.

Stuff like 18 MB / opening SC for MB / keeping people alive / pulling / holding my *** matters more than my 1 WS every comparatively huge interval should.
 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-03-03 12:51:36
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No matter what job our static is on we try to max whatever we can do. It was more critical when time for the objectives was lower but still saves some time:

- COR/NINs MBing with Kanton
- BRD GEO WHM BLM SCHs meleeing to add WSes

I usually give SAM + TACT on trashmob floors and BRD provides all the ACC mages need.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-03-03 12:57:27
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COR/nin MB is a really good idea for magical objective. Thanks for that.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-03 17:14:10
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Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
- COR/NINs MBing with Kanton

COR's normally go /DNC for the 18x JA ones since MBing is piss easy with BRD/WHM/GEO/ect.. being able to spam Dia for 2~3 MB's per SC. Just do RLB -> Flat Blade for super weak fusion.

WS's are piss easy to do in all setups except pure mage ones, and even then a decent melee COR can go a long way towards doing them.
 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-03-03 17:19:52
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18x JA are also piss easy. I went /DNC when it first came out but now value /NIN more for when I gain hate.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-03 17:25:36
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Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
18x JA are also piss easy.

JA is extremely painful for everyone except DNC, /DNC or pet jobs (Fight / Assault count). JA's tend to have long recasts with provoke being the fastest at 30s. Dia has a near instant recast and is available to all support jobs allowing it to be cast 2~3x per SC.

And since you said

Quote:
- COR/NINs MBing with Kanton
- BRD GEO WHM BLM SCHs meleeing to add WSes

Then your probably one of those groups that only use's SMN's or BLMs for everything, which would be why your COR finds Utsusemi useful. Competent melee's make mage's meleeing entirely unnecessary.
 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-03-03 17:54:15
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You asume wrong. We use mages for KEI and DD for everything else. No pet shehanigans, which means you pull hate on FU sometimes.


However I have to admit that our BRD comes /DNC usually also for his DW melee fun. So our JAs are covered more easily.
 Asura.Sanosuke
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By Asura.Sanosuke 2017-03-03 19:04:23
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Question: my static consists of 3 players + 3 dboxing mules. So far we been able to kill Kin and Gin no problem. Kyou I think we will be able to do if perhaps we bring 2 geos (dd setup) to help with the needle move using lupoans to take some of the dmg.

My question is about Kei. On BGwiki its says its main TP move at 75%,50%,20% and 10% does flat out 2500dmg. I have epeo run and we tried this MB style and when I went I took 4500dmg+. Does anyone do this as run tank, or is this a aegis pld job?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-03-03 19:07:28
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It sounds like you didn't dismiss luopans. And no, RUN is the ideal tank for it.
 Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2017-03-03 19:09:54
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Asura.Sanosuke said: »
Question: my static consists of 3 players + 3 dboxing mules. So far we been able to kill Kin and Gin no problem. Kyou I think we will be able to do if perhaps we bring 2 geos (dd setup) to help with the needle move using lupoans to take some of the dmg.

My question is about Kei. On BGwiki its says its main TP move at 75%,50%,20% and 10% does flat out 2500dmg. I have epeo run and we tried this MB style and when I went I took 4500dmg+. Does anyone do this as run tank, or is this a aegis pld job?

Kei's special move deals 2500 times the number of targets including pets and luopans in range of the attack, so the Tank and Luopan will take 5k damage each. It's best to recall luopan before each HP % trigger so it will only do 2500 damage to one person
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-03-03 19:25:47
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Alternatively (or in addition to, if you're paranoid like me in regards to people not recalling their ***in time, and/or just want to save the trouble having to cure up 2500 HP), you do have enough time to run out of range while the move is being readied. Just make sure to run back in while the animation is being executed or else it might do some goofy draw-in stuff.
 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-03-03 19:42:54
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Quote:
Kyou I think we will be able to do if perhaps we bring 2 geos (dd setup) to help with the needle move using lupoans to take some of the dmg.

We just have everyone stack behind the tank for the whole fight including only 1x GEO. It all depends on your WHMs skill to keep ppl topped off before the move and do curagas after. And well.. noone standing there in full Apogee set or Serpentis/WivreHairpin with no HP on it. But you don't need any special sets to soak it with 6+1 luopan. This way your DDs can just go out and melt it.

But ya... if you have some fat fingered WHM mule this might not work out so well.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-03 20:15:37
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For Kyou me and BL did some silly ***involving Chango and Rag. Kings Justice -> Torcleaver -> Upheaval -> Resolution -> Upheaval. 5 step light to radiance that take out 25 - 40% of its HP per volley. Just be careful cause you can overwhelm your healer.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-03-04 00:51:00
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Alternatively (or in addition to, if you're paranoid like me in regards to people not recalling their ***in time, and/or just want to save the trouble having to cure up 2500 HP), you do have enough time to run out of range while the move is being readied. Just make sure to run back in while the animation is being executed or else it might do some goofy draw-in stuff.

This is how my group does it, had the tank run out of each Fullers, didn't have any trouble. Our COR had the most trouble, followed by my dualboxed GEO of running out in time.
 Asura.Sanosuke
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By Asura.Sanosuke 2017-03-04 05:49:50
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Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
Quote:
Kyou I think we will be able to do if perhaps we bring 2 geos (dd setup) to help with the needle move using lupoans to take some of the dmg.

We just have everyone stack behind the tank for the whole fight including only 1x GEO. It all depends on your WHMs skill to keep ppl topped off before the move and do curagas after. And well.. noone standing there in full Apogee set or Serpentis/WivreHairpin with no HP on it. But you don't need any special sets to soak it with 6+1 luopan. This way your DDs can just go out and melt it.

But ya... if you have some fat fingered WHM mule this might not work out so well.

Whm is one of the mules dboxed, while we also have 2 idris geos, so I think 2 geos might well for us. If we had a full time whm then yeah I think we wouldn't need it.

Thanks for the heads up on the Kei and lupoan. Will look into that next run!
 Asura.Luckyseven
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2017-03-06 05:52:16
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I haven't read this entire thread, but I've read that you get 1 card for every 5 objective.

I do not think this is correct.

Today I entered Omen solo.

First floor: Completed 3 objectives + main objective. No card

Second floor: Completed 2 objectives + main objective. 1 card
The card was recieved after completing 3 objectives on second floor so a total of 7 objectives so far for this run.

Third floor: Completed 8 objectives. No card.
Later I recieved a random card upon defeating a normal enemy without completing an objective. Recieved another card upon completing main objective.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-03-06 06:25:17
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Are you considering the fact that the objectives you completed are stored cross-run?
That is if you complete 4 objectives on one run you'll get no card, but on the next run after the first objective you complete you will receive one because 4+1 = 5.

Also there's another way to obtain cards, it's through the hidden currency that you get from killing monsters.
This currency too is hidden and stored across runs. After you get past a certain threshold the counter resets restarting from zero, and you get one card.


Edit:
I'm not sure if the "hidden currency" thing counts as 1/5 objectives, or if that alone grants you one card. But whatever it is, it matters and because of that I suggest to always kill everything regardless, unless you're tight on time remaining.
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 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-03-06 07:50:07
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Quote:
Third floor: Completed 8 objectives. No card.


Does the game count more than 5 objectives on a cardrun floor? We tried card farm route once for science only and it was pretty underwhelming even tho we completed 10 objectives on floor 3.
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By clearlyamule 2017-03-06 07:51:44
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Asura.Luckyseven said: »
I haven't read this entire thread, but I've read that you get 1 card for every 5 objective.

I do not think this is correct.

Today I entered Omen solo.

First floor: Completed 3 objectives + main objective. No card

Second floor: Completed 2 objectives + main objective. 1 card
The card was recieved after completing 3 objectives on second floor so a total of 7 objectives so far for this run.

Third floor: Completed 8 objectives. No card.
Later I recieved a random card upon defeating a normal enemy without completing an objective. Recieved another card upon completing main objective.
I've seen it work for many cards in a row until I stopped bothering to track. But sometimes you don't get it in the chat log so it's easy to miss and then get it later and think it skipped or you miss doing an objective and such.

Also sounds like you were definitely on alt f-4 not 3 which specifically can give cards from killing randoms. Which is something SE put out when it was added but didn't apply before. Like you did 9 full objectives after receiving f2 card and got 2 cards so sounds like killing randoms counted for about 1 objective up to that point to go with the other 9 you did
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By sudsi 2017-03-06 08:45:48
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The first time I completed floor 4 (card route) I got two cards upon completing the primary objective.

It was probably a coincidence of two counters reaching CARD at the same time, but I've never seen it before or since.

Also, I'm fairly certain that I've gotten a card on completion of the floor 4 (card route) primary objective every time. So that one is just an automatic card and separate from objectives (?)
 Asura.Luckyseven
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2017-03-06 12:23:36
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Are you considering the fact that the objectives you completed are stored cross-run?
That is if you complete 4 objectives on one run you'll get no card, but on the next run after the first objective you complete you will receive one because 4+1 = 5.

Well this is all from 1 run. I completed 4 objectives and went into the light. I should have gotten a card on the first objective I cleared on the next floor, but didn't.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-03-06 13:22:14
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My hunch is that objective scaling stops at 6 people
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-03-06 14:29:52
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Apparently they aren't doing HP scaling.
 Asura.Luckyseven
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2017-03-07 06:18:39
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OK! So I did another run today.


First floor: I cleared 4 objectives and got a card.

Second floor: Cleared 4 objectives and got no card (so far so good).

Third floor (or alternate fourth): I forgot to pay attention and got another card between the 1-3 objectives cleared. So that means I got another card after clearing 5-7 objectives.

I then proceed to clear 6 more objectives without getting a card.

Some time ca 10min later I get a random card for killing a sweetwater panopt.

I get yet another card after finishing up the main objective.
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