IiPunch - Monk Guide

Not a MNK expert at all, but been toying with SU3 hands(NQ, actually all the ***I have is NQ) and I get some pretty comparable numbers dmg wise as to my other jobs I solo on in reisinjima, granted it's reisinjima. I have a pretty consistent ws dmg of 9-13k VS with spikes of 18-23k as well as AF I've hit a bunch of 9-15k(not complete build to say the least) but I've hit 27k on an ascended. Can hit up a TP build in sometimes as little as 2 attacks cycles, just delay is the thing even near cap(tp build of hiz+2 helm and 1 mache earring, rest literally DA or TA/niq ring[tho when quad procs....seems to slow down some so maybe taking it out]). I've literally built VS like I do for cdc on blu except of course str mod. Ive gotten some pretty outragous VS light chains on ascended as well when imp up with empy+1 glue'd during impetus(***builds faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast when getting all the TA proc's). Just too bad dont get tp when countering, pretty sure I'm at cap and mobs kill themselves in mass pulls. I'm having fun at least.

VS no impetus = ken. head, body, legs, feet, ryou hands, ambu crit/str/acc/att cape, moonbow belt, epona/niq,sherida/cessance, forgot ammo name (3 str 13 acc)
VS with impetus = same on all except body swap to empy+1(it's glue'd on for whole duration)

Im having fun with it, may not be meta. 1 attack cycle for all crits of 1500+ for 6-8 hits is funny. Think animation may slow it down on quad procs but it is what it is. Sure white number to ws number difference is a smaller gap compared to other jobs, but dmg is dmg. Wondering if Formless benefits from MAG crit now though with tweaks, haven't goofed off yet.


Again >.> i am no elitest, but it's fun. Goof off on it. It's a game. Trusts usually joachim, q, ulm, koru, yoran.

Played MNK for the first time in years again since I just got Godhands.

Parse on Kin:
MNK BLU BLU
SV H. March, Mad
Bolster Frail

Seq/Alm BLU (Savage): 454614 (36.1%) 1541dps
Godhands MNK (RF): 438247 (34.8%) 1485dps
Tiz/Seq BLU (Savage): 365659 (29.1%) 1239dps

MNK IS *** OMFG *** ONLY HAVE WHM LEVEL M. EVA CAPPED SB A TON OF SB II HP AND CAN ONLY DO AS MUCH AS A BORDERLINE PERFECT BLU ***

(also i tp'd in hybrid gear)

since BLU is overpowered, MNK must also be over powered with all the utility it has

NERF MNK

#NERFMNK2017

man spharai give you even more damage and tank

Why would you not main hand Seq if spamming Savage Blade? #NERFSB2017?

Tizona offhand blows and also I reminded him to use Sequence on main after the fight

i'll post another another parse soon... pls hold onto your seats

#mnkresurgence2017

Don't forget to Boost.

but on the real, mnk dps is in a good spot now, people just too busy whining about boost to notice.

Ah, so that isn't two separate BLUs. And there were two MNKs, not just one. So the parse was really:

BLU despite fiddling with weapons mid-fight: 820273 (65.17%)
MNK #1: =/= 219123 (17.41%)
MNK #2: =/= 219123 (17.41%)

#cwcantmath2017

Thinker:

MNK: 266k 2259 dps
BLU: 232k 1970 dps
BLU: 231k 1962 dps

Kin:

BLU: 640k 1894 dps
MNK: 504k 1491 dps
BLU: 438k 1297 dps

that was 2 different blus, no one fiddled w/ weapons in the middle of the fight, the tizona blu did not use it in the offhand because i told him after the fight

ya I find my mnk is around that 1500~ mark too I can get it up to closer to 2k but thats with tons of buffs. However my drk in the same scenario is usually rocking 2k+ and I can push it to 2800~ occasionally. Btw on Kin I use HF and pulled a 23k avg my last run, I couldnt get RF to do the same and my sets near perfect on RF. VS seems to lack on him too.

Ya mnks dps to me is around most 1h nowadays. However it doesnt offer much to the pty outside of mantra and lowered tp feed which on most nms is useless anymore because they have such high regains. However at the end of the day a mnk being DD probably isnt going to affect your win or not. Fun is Fun!

I thought godhands was still #1?

According to Pchan's math Verethragna is #1.
Godhands and Spharai alternate as #2 according to the situation.
Pchan was showing data leading to Spharai being better than Godhands more often than not.

I'm a bit skeptic on this data honestly, but if you wanna check yourself go a few pages before, lots of stuff for you to read and make your own opinion about it.


Btw Godhands is the weapon that gained the least out of the H2H weapon damage/delay tweak a couple of months ago, whereas Vere is the one that gained the most.

Looks like MNK is about where I left it.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/36705/iipunch-monk-guide/127/#3272054

I was teasing you because:


I think you simply meant BLU BLU MNK

In all fairness, Kin isn't exactly a good test since a lot of the time you're turned/end up healing it. I'll post more results on other NMs after I unlock VS (because I forgot to >_>)

But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if I fall into the same general trend as you. The gimpness of MNK is greatly overstated.

Nerf MNK

Breaking news;

Everything is good when played by someone that's good.

Everything is bad when played by someone that's bad.

No one has ever heard of average here. Your average mnk is ***. Your average blu is too good. (*while meeting basic requirements)

I found the same to be true when I was CPing it last campaign, although I haven't had the chance to mess around with it on anything more serious.

That's not to say it isn't an outlier that needs adjustment, just that the narrative that a good MNK is still going to be beaten by an awful BLU in damage (assuming both are capping attack speed) is false.

Don't wanna sound annoying but, that data doesn't really tell us a lot, does it?
First of all, as you said, Kin isn't really the best target to be testing DD related stuff, au contraire.
Should pick something like Gin or Kyou if you wanna stay in Omen.

Then the second part is that we don't know anything about the other people in the parse.
We don't know who they are. Sure you guys are telling us that they're good players, that they have good gear and I have no reason to doubt you.
But were those guys playing at their max? Did they have all their gear/stuff setup? Was everyone equally buffed and did Interference not *** some of them up removing vital buffs?
Did they know you were parsing to see how far behind MNK is?


Blah blah blah. I mean I have absolutely no reason to doubt your intentions, but that doesn't change the fact you could have unwillingly fell under the effect of confirmation bias.



Wouldn't it be more interesting if you did another sort of parse?
Put MNK as the only DD and parse data like
1) DPS
2) Overall Damage (no SC)
3) Avg WS
4) Highest and Lowest WS
5) Time to kill (redundant with 1) but still useful)
Avoiding SPs of course.

At that point it would be easier to "measure" how far behind MNK is.
Personally from my experience MNK isn't maybe as bad has other jobs have been through the history of FFXI so far (while people are still whining, the current one is a very balanced moment for FFXI!), but at the same time I can't deny it's in a very bad shape.
And yes, I've been outparsed by average/mediocre BLUs in some content.
Granted we're talking about low buffs situations, when you're all decked up with a plethora of relevant buffs I guess the difference is smaller.

I wrote too much, I apologize.
My point is that the "oh look how close/above I am compared to these other DDs!" doesn't say a lot in a single test.
I mean I have friends who are very good players with really good gear and sometimes I've been able to outparse them with them on BLU and me on... BARD.
But if I try to do that 50 times, how many of those times would it happen?
Exactely!
Me taking the parse from the one time I outparsed them and use it to say "look! BLU isn't that OP after all! #nerfBRD!" would be kinda meaningless now, wouldn't it?

I was the #1 BLU in that parse. My savage blade set isn't perfect but my other gear (TP and such) is very good. You're right about Kin being a bad mob to choose because Raging Fists gets some benefit from that (although so does Savage Blade.)

The best part about MNK is that even though you don't do any damage, you don't give the mob any TP either. So it's at least break even.

Let's do some if:then statements.

If my rag pld > random rag drk then Nerfplddps

If my whm/dnc > random zona blu then Nerfwhmdps

These are the same *** you're spewing.

If good player > bad player then anything they use is superior.

If good player uses bad job well then bad job is good enough, not good.

I was being borderline facetious with the #nerfmnk ***because I was expecting to be absolutely obliterated based off of user reports. I plan on doing proper tests when I have more time (I'm going on vacation on Saturday and won't have access to FFXI for 9 days.) For transparencies sake I'll try and give as much info about last night as possible:

BLU 1: Snaps
BLU 2: Cair/Jinjo

I think it's fair to say that from what we've seen them contribute towards the community, we can conclude that they both know how to play at their best.

My damage split as a MNK is roughly ~27.5% white/72.5% WS which is a lot lower than people were claiming it to be (roughly 50/50) but also a lot higher than my SAM (which is usually 12.5/87.5)

WS avgs were all in the 18.5-21.5k range (21.5, 20.5, 18.5 respectively), Snaps has better WS gear than Cair does, so it makes sense that he beat him by 3k (3k x20 ws would have put him roughly at my DPS) WS frequency was about the same across all characters for both Thinker and Kin.

Accuracy was 96-99% for BLU and 90% for me (this one didn't really make sense to me, we all had >1700 accuracy and I didn't have march or madrigal dispelled.)

No songs were dispelled, I was playing the BRD as well and made sure no songs dropped. Kin only got 2 interferences off the entire fight, and we had a bunch of extra buffs so it was harder for it to target songs.

Since turning is an issue with Kin it's obviously not fully reflective of optimal playing, but the Glassy Thinker parse is closer to what it may actually look like. Debuff times on players may have been different but that should be reflective of the job rather than random error, since MNK gets Kendatsuba access.

One major note I should make is that I literally threw my MNK together in 1 day the other day based off of gear I already had for other jobs (BLU/RUN/SAM) with the exception of Moonbow Belt +1. I have no +3s or anything to play with so my damage can only go up from here.

It's also worth mentioning that I forgot to unlock VS so I only have RF/HF access at the moment. MNK also gets absurdly high accuracy in even their lowest TP set, but their WS gear doesn't get the same luxury so my WS sets aren't fully optimized for maximum damage in order to match accuracy between my TP and WS sets (although they are close to ideal.)

I plan on playing MNK semi-regularly now that I'm >200 cards over cap on SAM so I'll continue gathering data before I make any conclusions. My initial posts were just poking fun at people writing off MNK completely. I think that MNK has a ton of potential if it can come close to matching BLU in DPS while maintaining really high HP and M. Eva/DT. Having capped SB and 25 SB2 + access to stuff like Mantra/Penance is immensely helpful too.

Eiryl:

If you had one gil for each brain cell you've made me lose, you'd have

Kin is kind of wonky for parsing because any damage he absorbs is counted as damage by parsers (so huge mistakes help your DPS instead of hurting), and some people with well-scaling WSs will melee through some of his absorb phases in order to have 2000-3000 TP right when it ends.

Depends what parser your using some know to actually deduct it from your DMG and to hurt your DPS. I;m guessing you were talking about meh Scoreboard though.

It's all good. I assumed this was all tongue-in-cheek.
I look forward to your future results. Because this "Don't look at BLU!" parse raises more questions about its process than it provides answers for its results.

Enjoy your vacation!

I'll see if I can get a 12+ sample size of an easy NM like taelmoth or selkit before I leave and then also the same for neak to compare easy vs hard nms at the very least. I probably won't do uncapped vs capped since it's less useful to me since I always have access to GEOs and a BRD

they weren't before the update and not now