The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-04-13 07:54:07
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Asura.Saevel said: »
And none of that is relevant. You would end up with 3min rolls after the COR was done dicking around with that npc and you still have to run to pop spot.

What's really happening is your using mule cors to toss on extra rolls the kicking them while ignoring sll the times your CORs bust or roll non-11s. There is a recast to all those JAs, I've had CORz screw around for 3min trying for double 11s until we told them to stop and just accept what they got. For this reason relying on 11s is stupid and counterproductive. You end up wasting more time then the fight takes, not to mention having to do this in the middle of a fight.

You're bad, that's not how it works at all. You can rely on Super Revitalizer spamming to use Snake Eye for every post V double up. It's fast enough that we can have our BRD/GEO come on COR, do rolls, warp back and change jobs and still have time to do their buffs. Yes this is only relevant for zerging but that is the context of this conversation. Usually we don't bother with BRD/GEO rolls anymore though as we'll have two actual COR that we just rotate for 4 crooked XI rolls.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-13 08:10:07
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Ahh knew the personal attacks would happen sooner or later.

Phantom roll itself has a recast along with Snake Eye, Fold, Random Deal and Crooked. Getting the NPC to give you a menu takes a few seconds, then scrolling through that menu to the very end, hitting enter and waiting for it to give you the prompt to hit enter again. Even with Eternity and FastCS loaded there is still quite a wait because SE sucks at coding. Unless your using a custom add-on that automagically gives you the selected temps without ever having to engage with the NPC...

Then your doing that after every roll regardless of how the roll ended, so yeah your wasting two minutes easily on that mess just to humble brag that your non-existent WAR (or any 2H job for that matter) gets a "three hit!!".

So if I WS and during my animation the monster attacks me and retaliation procs a QA to restore my TP, can I claim "anyone can have a one hit" and take home the forum humble brag trophy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humblebrag

Anyhow problem solved.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-13 08:20:49
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To all the braggarts



Yes your awesome and us mere plebeians bow down to your divine majesty. Your so awesome that our minds simply can't contain your words and your knowledge would be wasted on us. As such we understand we accept and acknowledge your need to go to your own private place filled with other divine beings to share and discuss your holiness.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-04-13 08:32:48
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This is your reaction to someone
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ahh knew the personal attacks would happen sooner or later.

Phantom roll itself has a recast along with Snake Eye, Fold, Random Deal and Crooked. Getting the NPC to give you a menu takes a few seconds, then scrolling through that menu to the very end, hitting enter and waiting for it to give you the prompt to hit enter again. Even with Eternity and FastCS loaded there is still quite a wait because SE sucks at coding. Unless your using a custom add-on that automagically gives you the selected temps without ever having to engage with the NPC...

Then your doing that after every roll regardless of how the roll ended, so yeah your wasting two minutes easily on that mess just to humble brag that your non-existent WAR (or any 2H job for that matter) gets a "three hit!!".

So if I WS and during my animation the monster attacks me and retaliation procs a QA to restore my TP, can I claim "anyone can have a one hit" and take home the forum humble brag trophy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humblebrag

Anyhow problem solved.

Have you even tried doing this method once? It doesn't take that long, especially with RD/Snake eye merits. You can get in at least 2 Snake Eyes per Super Revit and that's usually enough to get XI because of Snake Eye merits.

Either way nobody is humble bragging. This is just your classic reaction to something you don't understand or agree with.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-13 09:34:33
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I don't bother with forcing 11s because nothing in escha is remotely hard any more and it seems like a waste of silt. That said, it's certainly doable and very easy to do so without any special addons. Takes 10 sec or so to buy a revit, but the worst roll you could end up with is a 6 (snake eye > rd > revit > snake eye > rd > revit > snake eye > rd, assuming 2/3 rd land). You still only need to buy 2 revits and spend 30 seconds per roll. You can plain double up until at least at 6, so many cases will only need 0-2 snake eyes, to say nothing of the merits proccing. If you are using an outside buffer, you probably don't care about their 1h either, so in many cases you can also wild card for another snake eye/rd instantly.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-13 09:47:49
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Takes 60~120s total to put up rolls spamming super revits depending on luck and then you need to run to pop, get songs / ect.. and then pop. If your BRD is really great (long duration) you can put up SV NT songs ahead of time but most BRD's don't have Carn or super high end duration gear so it's still a race against time. What you end up with is wasting a ***ton of time for 3min rolls in a fight you'd kill anyway. Then you run back to town, reset SP's and do it all over again.

Snake Eye does not guarantee an 11, it's +1 to the roll with a chance of bringing it to 11. So you roll a 3, then a 5 for 8, then you pop SE for a 9, RD and hope it gets SE instead of PR to a 10, revit SE to 11, then do all that over again for next roll, while dealing with SE's shitty NPC menu coding. The Menu's aren't fast nor responsive, without Eternity and FastCS it's a chore to do anything through them.

Grand results of all this is spending five min to turn a two and a half minute fight into a two minute fight, so someone can humbly brag on the forum about how they roll. <Golf Clap>

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AwesomeButImpractical

Now everyone else just use's a more conservative easily repeatable strategy that works with their group members because they don't need validation from the interwebz. They don't get to pose and posture about how great they are, but they do get fast, reliable and easily predictable outcomes using their jobs they have at their disposal.
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-13 09:51:47
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Says the guy bragging about beating people on a parse with an "inferior" weapon.
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 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-04-13 14:53:53
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Wondering how the Sulevia's Cuisses +2 fair for Upheaval, and in particular in the LowACC set on the front page.

6 more VIT, 4TA, and 49 attack compared to Pummeler's ~25 acc (with set bonus), and 11DA%.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-13 20:06:15
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Asura.Fiasko said: »
Wondering how the Sulevia's Cuisses +2 fair for Upheaval

At what TP level and are you using Chango? Upheaval is a WS that changes it's requirements based on it's TP.

1000TP (1250 with earring)
1.625 fTP on first hit + 1.0 for 3 hits with another 1.0 from a DA

1000TP (1750 earring and Chango)
2.875 fTP on first hit + 1.0 for 3 hits with another 1.0 from a DA

1000TP (2450 earring, Chango and Warcry)
4.85 fTP on first hit + 1.0 for 3 hits with another 1.0 from a DA

Max TP at 3K with whatever buffs
6.5 fTP on first hit + 1.0 for 3 hits with another 1.0 from a DA

Around 2K TP is where Upheaval starts to get more out of WSD then extra Multi-Attack, so you actually need two WS sets for it. I'm in the process of building my Lua to figure out what my actual TP would be and to use the right set.
 Quetzalcoatl.Khajit
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By Quetzalcoatl.Khajit 2017-04-14 19:13:27
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I keep on hearing about how ragnarok isn't the strongest gsword as Zulfiqar and the cerb unity gsword are so what are the minimum augments required for an augmented Zulfiqar to theoretically outdo a ragnarok?
I'm considering that as my next augment project.
I currently have it at DMG+26 DEX+14 acc+22 atk +25
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-04-14 22:37:25
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A good augment for Zulfiqar is 20DMG+/20~STR/20ACC/DA>STP>WSACC
basically 20/20/20 is what you want to shoot for.

Ragnarok is still going to win on anything you need acc on.
(a fight with many dispels/few buffs/etc)
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-04-14 23:44:35
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Asura.Fiasko said: »
A good augment for Zulfiqar is 20DMG+/20~STR/20ACC/DA>STP>WSACC
basically 20/20/20 is what you want to shoot for.

Ragnarok is still going to win on anything you need acc on.
(a fight with many dispels/few buffs/etc)

The one I have is Dmg +30, Acc +30 att +18 stp +2 and im happy with my 4hit on drk and run (im not a serious dd so im happy) Would you suggest I chance those to something else?
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-04-15 00:08:36
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For Warrior the STR really helps for Reso but yours are decent enough that you can focus augments on something else.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-04-15 16:26:14
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Siren.Sandraa said: »
The enemies nerf was a huge mistake =/.

Buffing BRD like they did
Regal Necklace "Phantom Roll"+10
Not nerfing GEO

This alone would be enough to allow us zerg ILV150 content.

Not offense but when a stupid Zulfiqar is outparsing all the ultimate weapons WAR can use something is wrong

Zulfiqar cost 8M Merc add extra 20M on augments vs 300M cost a ultimate weapon.

Eh it isn't a huge deal if it can beat it during mighty strikes or come close without it. It's not like a Ragnarok during a MS is going to tickle the monster to death. Don't really care about what it can do every 45 minutes.

On everything else the critical hit rate boost/occ deals 2.5x damage makes your regular melee hits beastly. Sure the proc rate is a bit lower than say an Empyrean, but Ragnaroks delay makes the proc rate seem higher than it really is. Yeah white damage is sort of "meh" at this point, but I'll take it.

The critical hit rate also helps boost retaliations damage especially when you throw +2/+3 Pummelers hands/Boi+1 feet in with a hybrid dt/dd set. For example those two pieces give +42% Retaliation damage (+3 Pummelers would give more).

When it crits you get +11% critical hit damage on top of that for a total of +53% damage not including traits/gifts. With blood rage up it is pretty impressive.

DT/DD/Retaliation Set
ItemSet 350511
(This+Blood Rage/Rag/AM is very nice if your mages don't mind)


I don't think relics are always about being the best in slot for every situation. It's something you do if you love the job/take it seriously.

Ragnarok's accuracy really helps when you want to throw on some DT Gear and still deal damage.

DT/DD Hybrid Set:
ItemSet 350510
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By Darksparksnot 2017-04-16 03:29:40
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Zulfiqar was trashing rag during ms for a while now, with the latest acc changes is a beast weapon, i have both and i dont qq when a cheap item become better than something expensive like some people here. Bandwagon still going strong.
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By Blazed1979 2017-04-16 10:57:53
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Siren.Sandraa said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Siren.Sandraa said: »
The enemies nerf was a huge mistake =/.

Buffing BRD like they did
Regal Necklace "Phantom Roll"+10
Not nerfing GEO

This alone would be enough to allow us zerg ILV150 content.

Not offense but when a stupid Zulfiqar is outparsing all the ultimate weapons WAR can use something is wrong

Zulfiqar cost 8M Merc add extra 20M on augments vs 300M cost a ultimate weapon.

Eh it isn't a huge deal if it can beat it during mighty strikes or come close without it. It's not like a Ragnarok during a MS is going to tickle the monster to death. Don't really care about what it can do every 45 minutes.

On everything else the critical hit rate boost/occ deals 2.5x damage makes your regular melee hits beastly. Sure the proc rate is a bit lower than say an Empyrean, but Ragnaroks delay makes the proc rate seem higher than it really is. Yeah white damage is sort of "meh" at this point, but I'll take it.

The critical hit rate also helps boost retaliations damage especially when you throw +2/+3 Pummelers hands/Boi+1 feet in with a hybrid dt/dd set. For example those two pieces give +42% Retaliation damage (+3 Pummelers would give more).

When it crits you get +11% critical hit damage on top of that for a total of +53% damage not including traits/gifts. With blood rage up it is pretty impressive.

DT/DD/Retaliation Set
ItemSet 350511
(This+Blood Rage/Rag/AM is very nice if your mages don't mind)


I don't think relics are always about being the best in slot for every situation. It's something you do if you love the job/take it seriously.

Ragnarok's accuracy really helps when you want to throw on some DT Gear and still deal damage.

DT/DD Hybrid Set:
ItemSet 350510

I dont have a problem playing situational best slot item between Mythic, Aeonic, Empyrean and Relic weapons. If suddenly this game become FFXIV 2.0... Ultimate weapons are glamour items that will be sad.

Zulfiqar can be augment with accuracy as well, so the ragnarok advantajes are even less

Ragnarok delay hurts the weapon instead of help, you need more sacrifices to reduce your X/HIT set up, in addition you always will have 75% - 80% Haste even using trusts

in this game 80% of our damage come from weapon skills and 20% of white damage, boosting your white damage is a small DPS gain.

The last pages people were *** ejiin because he put Ragnarok as best slot item =/

Im sorry if i sound a bit pissed but man i just finished a UkonLV99 with my alt, chango is completed 85% and 13 000/30 000 alex for conqueror just to find my Zulfiqar is better ><

As a little extra note the other day i was playing with the numbers, to make the white damage relevant on Relic and Empy weapons. That must be Occ deals quintuple damage just to make the people care a "bit more"

You should have been here 3-4 years ago when SE released Delve weapons. I still remember finishing my 99 Verethragnas and the next day seeing a pair of H2H with more than double the damage, that could be bought on AH.
It was painful.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-04-16 12:21:07
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Yeah I didnt play from around 2012-2016 so I probably would of felt your pain since Ukon and Calad would of probably had less base damage than newer weapons at the time.

Question regarding your resolutions.

Are you guys weaponskilling at 1k tp each time? With Rag I've been waiting until 1750.

At 1k tp the damage is pretty meh and there is that slight delay until you start swinging again.

I know usually that weaponskilling at 1k is usually the most efficient thing to do. But with Reso's insane damage boost based on tp it isnt really hurting me.

I figure during that 2 second delay I can get a few attack cycles in (hopefully) 3-4 auto attacks) which does add some dps/tp and would make up for things in the first place.

Maybe tonight I'll mess with over all damage and see what works out the best for me.

Also dropping a reso at 1k tp isnt always practical for me, but maybe I just hold back too much.
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By Blazed1979 2017-04-16 14:34:12
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I see best results when I hold off until 1750sh mark. Even better at 2500, if you get a da/ta proc.
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By Afania 2017-04-16 15:29:10
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On my spreadsheet I'm getting the highest dps at 2300 tp without warcry, no idea if that's true in game unless someone test it with parses.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-16 20:40:31
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...

...

Your seeing what you want to see.

With Resolution you always get best damage from WSing at 1K TP. Your per-WS won't be as high but you will get in many more WS's. Things like moonshade and fotia don't scale with TP.

Reso
0.71875 / 1.5 / 2.25
6 hits = 4.3125 / 9 / 13.5 << This is where people think it's good to hold on Reso.

With Fotia

0.91875 / 1.7 / 2.45
5.5125 / 10.2 / 14.7

With Fotia and Moonshade

1.11406 / 1.8875 / 2.45
6.68436 / 11.325 / 14.7 << 1K x1.75 now easily surpass's 1750 Spam.

Then the grand daddy of them all, Warcry +700 TP Bonus

1.66093 / 2.4125 / 2.45
9.96558 / 14.475 / 14.7 << Not even comparable anymore.

1750 TP would be 2K with Moonshade and 1.7 fTP per hit for 75% slower WS speed. No you don't get 3~4 attack rounds off in 2s, you get ~1. 800/1024 = 78.125% attack speed or 21.875% attack round. 431 * .21875 = 94.2 delay units, one second is 60 delay units so you are swinging at 1.5s per attack round. 504 *.21875 = 110.25 or 1.83 seconds per attack round. Extra TP from multi-attack's or retaliation is always nice but you don't deliberately refrain from hitting the WS macro.

The way Resolution works is that your not penalized much for holding TP past 1000 as it's a nearly linear scale from 1K to 3K. Things like Fotia, Moonshade and Warcry are all static additions and don't scale with TP, you won't get double Fotia potency at 2K for example. The guy who started the "hold to 1750 no matter what other people tell me" only cared about seeing big numbers and didn't take number of WS's into account. The "Hold / Build TP for bigger WS" only applies if closing a SC with something like Upheaval or King's Justice, in which case the SC damage is more then making up for the slight loss in total DPS. Resolution isn't for SCing though so you just blast it as hard as possible.

Quantity has a quality all it's own.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-16 21:11:03
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Anytime accuracy matters, which is anything important, Rag will win, especially if you consider that you should be spending ~some~ of your time in a -DT set. In ideal circumstances Zulf barely edges out Rag, mostly due to it's higher augmented DMG value.

Here is my Zulf
DMG 297 +25
STR +11
Acc 15+21
Atk 15+16
WSD 2+3 (SE wouldn't give me DA or Store TP)

In my Resolution set I have 35 Store TP total, with one DA averaged a 5/6 hit TP return would be 243.27. That would require 252.24 TP per swing for a "4-hit" at 80 needed Store TP. A "5-hit" would only need 189.18 per swing at 35 Store TP. "5-hit" base with a *** ton of Multi-Attack seems to be the better overall DPS option as you end up giving up a ton to reach 80 Store TP. Utu grip and Niqmaddu ring really screw with Store TP builds.

Rag has a completely different Store TP profile. Same 5/6 Resolution gives you 219.18 from WS making you need 780.82 to reach your next WS. A "5-hit" would need 195.2 TP per swing @60 Store TP. A "4-hit" would need 260.27 TP per swing at 113 Store TP.

To give everyone an idea of the Accuracy between them, me standing in Norg with no buffs / food / ect.. up.

Rag TP Acc: 1214
Rag Reso Acc: 1210
Rag DT Acc: 1108

Zulf TP Acc: 1197 (WAR AF+3 has an *** load of acc and DA)
Zulf Reso Acc: 1161
Zulf DT Acc: 1059
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-04-17 07:53:54
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I wasn't saying 3~4 attack rounds. More like 3-4 auto attacks so 2 rounds tops. You have a point there though.

Thanks for breaking it down like that.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-17 08:16:41
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Something else I remembered is that Resolutions animation is longer then 2s so your next attack round has already started in the middle of the animation. It's possible to have over 1K TP as the animation is ending and this is why I use JAzero, so I can input my next WS when I get TP and not be forced to artificially wait for a long animation. It's even possible to DAT mod Reso to be a shorter WS animation if people don't like JAZero, Spinechiller is pretty cool.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-04-17 14:31:33
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The funny thing is that GK animations also work for Gsword; So you can have even more fun messing around with that.

Torcleaver/Fudos/Shohas animation is pretty short.
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By Staleyx 2017-04-17 14:41:34
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I've always be able to weaponskill mid resolution or any weaponskill for that matter without any ja0wait or dat switch.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-04-17 14:57:23
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JA/MA/WS and cooldowns work like this.

/ws Resolution <t> -- Outgoing 0x1a action packet
Incoming 0x28 action packet (for starting)
Incoming 0x28 action packet (for completing)

You can get interrupted between the two 0x28 (even with WS, the mob might die, you could get paralyzed, put to sleep, etc.) If you're on cooldown, you receive a 0x29 action message instead of the sequence of two 0x28.

As far as I know, the lockout time starts after the server sends the second 0x28 and it's a static value that depends on the category of action (ja/ma/item/etc.) although there are some weird exceptions (elixirs and such.) ja0wait isn't going to help you use actions faster and I'm pretty sure the animation for WS is started by the second action packet (so animation length doesn't matter either.)
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By Staleyx 2017-04-17 16:46:54
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From doing so many weaponskills I know when Im able to ws again by animation. For example right before last swing of cdc I can hit it again and it will end that animation early and start a new one.
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