FFXI Feedback Friday 4: Preserving FFXI

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FFXI Feedback Friday 4: Preserving FFXI
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By Ovalidal 2023-01-20 08:34:09
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Vote Here:
https://strawpoll.com/polls/poy9WQbxJgJ

FFXI is an old MMO. SE has talked a lot about preserving the game somehow, but there is no official information on how exactly. How would you want FFXI and its world/stories preserved?

Also how would you want the relaunch of FFXI balanced? Do you want it old school and time consuming, or do you want a lot of modern conveniences?
 Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2023-01-20 09:31:47
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My desire to see FFXI locations in crisp 4k leads me to a Single Player Remake. Vanadiel is an amazing world, with lots of stories. It's a shame so few people got to experience it (relative to the rest of FF)
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By Mattelot 2023-01-20 09:38:33
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Real multi-core support
 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2023-01-20 09:56:33
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I don't think FFXI as it is could work as an offline game. Not only are a lot of the mechanics ingrained in the concept of multiplayer, but look at all the fun background stuff like Campaign and Conquest that just couldn't work without a persistent world with hundreds of players.

An MMO remake would be nice, but would also lead us to the same issue of preservation in 20-30 years from its release. A single-player from-scratch remake would be my first choice because you could preserve the story while optimizing the game for a single-player experience.

Otherwise, I just want to see them make more games in the world of Vana'diel. Its history is so meaty and the world is so deep that it could so easily extend beyond Final Fantasy XI. It could take place far in the past or far in the future, it could explore continents not yet seen in the MMO. And not only would that give us preservation, it would also encourage people to check out FFXI itself. "Wow, that game was fun! Wait - there's an MMORPG set in this world? Sign me up!"
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2023-01-20 10:07:40
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Full pie in the sky?

Retell the game in a single player experience with multiplayer elements. So much of XIs lore has been tucked away or forgotten because of drip/drop content over years. It could stand to use a focused single experience that cleans up the original stories and introduces it to new players.

The multiplayer elements could come with online matchmaking for things like our favorite NMs like Leaping Lizzie, Fafnir or Absolute Virtue. Encourage online linkshells and monthly objectives for things like Dynamis.
 Bahamut.Dajjal
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By Bahamut.Dajjal 2023-01-20 10:36:12
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
I don't think FFXI as it is could work as an offline game.

The PS2 Demo was offline IIRC, people commented on how empty it felt. Apart from partying, getting access to items would be obnoxious if you had to craft all of them yourself.

I have no desire to see a single player FFXI. The game IS preserved as long as it is running. Porting the engine from whatever PS2 era nonsense it is running on to something like Unity or Unreal is probably a great first step.
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By Mattelot 2023-01-20 11:28:07
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
I don't think FFXI as it is could work as an offline game.

If you copy/paste then yeah, it really wouldn't work. You'd have to prune a lot and tune things for solo play. Can you imagine soloing Disjoined Galka?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-20 11:30:36
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I think an offline version would be possible just by adding more trusts with more roles and making them more powerful I guess.
Of course they would have to tune several end-game content if they want to make them viable with just trust but that shouldn't really take too much time.

I think the hardest burden would be to re-adapt all their network server<>client infrastructure to work as a single player offline game.
That is something I can't measure but it could be quite the effort on their end.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-20 11:33:40
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Mattelot said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
I don't think FFXI as it is could work as an offline game.

If you copy/paste then yeah, it really wouldn't work. You'd have to prune a lot and tune things for solo play. Can you imagine soloing Disjoined Galka?
With a Primeval Brew sort-of buff? Yeah, totally.
Or by reducing their stats by a fixed (but noticeable) amount, and so on.
There's so many things they can do to ease the difficulty.

Something having too much defense/evasion/hp/attack/etc won't be an issue.
It's more about "special" mechanics that would have to be fixed individually, like stuff that does 10k needles, or insta-death.
Stuff like that would definitely require specific tweaks, but pretty much everything else can be easily solved with a powerful buff on player or a powerful debuff applied on every NM entry in their database.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2023-01-20 11:36:05
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I think an offline version would be possible just by adding more trusts with more roles and making them more powerful I guess.
Of course they would have to tune several end-game content if they want to make them viable with just trust but that shouldn't really take too much time.
The entire Trust system would have to be redone. The fact that you not only need to initiate a fight, but completely stay engaged in combat at all times makes it nearly impossible to be a proper spellcaster. They'd have to rework the game to operate more like the Gambit system from XII or come up with a completely new system altogether.

And if you're going to go that far, you might as well just start from scratch anyway.

No matter what tools you give them, Trusts just aren't smart enough to know when you need to Sleepga a group of enemies or run far away from an AoE or something.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-01-20 11:39:53
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XI offline is just XII with a "better" story.

It's not any different, except the trusts wouldn't be playable like party members are in XII (but they could be, why not)

The only change necessary would be gambits, which XI needs anyway. (and ability to continue casting even if an enemy dies!!)
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 Asura.Toeknee
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By Asura.Toeknee 2023-01-20 11:43:20
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Elden Ring, but FFXI. Someone smarter than me could figure out how to make that work
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By Mattelot 2023-01-20 11:43:38
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
The entire Trust system would have to be redone.

This.

Trigger warning!!!!!!!
FFXIV trusts are designed to do mechanics while XI ones just follow and attack, etc.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-20 11:48:19
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
The entire Trust system would have to be redone. The fact that you not only need to initiate a fight, but completely stay engaged in combat at all times makes it nearly impossible to be a proper spellcaster.
I don't think they would have to "completely redo" it. Atm the Trust system uses "player engaged yes/no" to discriminate wether or not Trusts should become active.
They just need to change that condition to "player has enmity/has aggroed".

Of course it would take some additional tweaks to decide how to handle multiple targets and stuff like that, but really I don't think it would be a MASSIVE change.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-01-20 11:53:18
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Sorry to be a party pooper but if you "fix" trusts to be able to complete mechanics for you, it either completely trivializes the challenge of the enemies in the game, or won't work.

It's easy for a pile of HP like Disjoined NMs, sure, but are you going to program trusts to properly execute all of the objectives in Omen? If so, what is the player doing exactly? How about having 6 trusts line up perfectly for Unfaltering Bravado? OK sure they can do that and the damage has been adjusted properly for 6 players instead of 18. But once again you've just eliminated all the challenge of the game.

I mean, I guess technically YOU still have to do your part, but if the rest of the party is automatically (or based on some Gambits you can set up before the fight) doing the mechanics...it kind of defeats the challenge of the game. If trusts are automatically healing you properly, removing status ailments, tanking, applying TH, sleeping adds, debuffing, etc. then you've pretty much just eliminated player agency, IMO.

This is especially true if you consider that you want the player to be able to play any job. This means that there needs to be a TH8+ trust, because you can't force someone to play THF. There needs to be a tank trust which can hold hate off the player, because you can't expect them to tank with no other players in the game. They need to be able to DPS in case your player is playing WHM.

IDK, I'd REALLY love to have a single-player version of FFXI, but it absolutely would not work with the current game mechanics. It would either be ludicrously easy, or frustratingly difficult. I think a complete remake would be required if they wanted to do a single player version of this story, these mechanics, or these areas/events.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-01-20 11:54:40
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I don't think they would have to "completely redo" it. Atm the Trust system uses "player engaged yes/no" to discriminate wether or not Trusts should become active.
They just need to change that condition to "player has enmity/has aggroed".

Practically speaking I'm sure it's not that difficult, but I believe they made this decision on purpose, because if they didn't you could just walk around casting banishga on mobs and watching your trusts solo them from afar. Or just aggro things and let your trusts completely destroy them all. It's a balance issue. Cast stone on a mob, walk to 21' and wait for it to die.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-01-20 12:00:12
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Fellas. Omen, odyssey, delve, dynamis, ambuscade, mmm, that ***, doesn't exist in an offline version.

It would be (mostly) story only, so, yeah

You won't be doing htmb and making crafting shields lol.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-20 12:10:25
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Sorry to be a party pooper but if you "fix" trusts to be able to complete mechanics for you, it either completely trivializes the challenge
Who cares?
The purpose of this "projet" would be to preserve a remote resemblance of what FFXI has been, not to have a perfect, challenging, offline version.
That would be close to impossible or simply require way too many time, human and money resources.
 Quetzalcoatl.Khajit
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By Quetzalcoatl.Khajit 2023-01-20 12:16:05
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There is no ffxi without other players or extensive retooling to the point that they might as well remake/update XI while they're at it. SE needs to just let XIV get enough ripped models/textures into that game to enable an HD upgrade with some misc engine/design tweaks. The hard part is how many maps they'd have to go through
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By Draylo 2023-01-20 13:17:36
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More doom and gloom
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By Dodik 2023-01-20 17:23:44
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Not seeing a "None of the above" option.

Only thing XI needs is to get rid of POL. But seeing as how SE loves convoluted unusable game portals, fat chance of that happening any time soon.

They literally had the chance to do it from scratch and made the abomination that is the FFXIV account system.
 Asura.Daleterrence
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2023-01-20 17:46:10
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I'd personally be very happy with a single player experience that takes place in Vana'diel, either long before or long after the age of adventurers takes place. Frankly I can't see FFXI itself going away anytime soon so there would need to be a storyline explanation for where everyone went, I think "they all died" or "they ain't even alive yet who dat" works fine.

As for the game itself, same world, same locations (mostly), same jobs and spells etc, but a new game completely with new gameplay and systems. Can tickle the old nostalgia bone for the FFXI fanbase whilst giving new players a story and game they can enjoy too.
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 Asura.Aquatiq
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By Asura.Aquatiq 2023-01-20 19:06:16
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No preserve. The cycle continues. In death, it gives us life.
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By Hopalong 2023-01-20 21:38:54
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Any way to vote using ffxi ah? Not gonna click a link here.
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By Thunderjet 2023-01-20 23:00:39
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Ovalidal said: »
Vote Here:
https://strawpoll.com/polls/poy9WQbxJgJ

FFXI is an old MMO. SE has talked a lot about preserving the game somehow, but there is no official information on how exactly. How would you want FFXI and its world/stories preserved?

Also how would you want the relaunch of FFXI balanced? Do you want it old school and time consuming, or do you want a lot of modern conveniences?

they should make just an offline version of the game past vanadiel age of creation with races and old the beastmen kings too, instead
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By Rinuko 2023-01-21 17:07:32
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Mattelot said: »
FFXIV trusts are designed to do mechanics while XI ones just follow and attack, etc.
Which they barely do. Trust system in 14 is a joke.

Hopalong said: »
Any way to vote using ffxi ah? Not gonna click a link here.
Never heard of strawpoll? It's not malware.
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