Losing Exemplar Points A Bit Unfair

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Losing exemplar points a bit unfair
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 Lakshmi.Blackada
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By Lakshmi.Blackada 2022-02-25 15:51:30
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It seems thst I lose exemplar points when dying to a mob that does not give exemplar points. It happened to me in a VR fight. Am I correct on this point? And if so surely it needs to be corrected.
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By SimonSes 2022-02-25 16:46:35
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Summer child..
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2022-02-25 17:02:31
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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2022-02-25 17:03:19
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-02-25 17:31:44
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If there was a FFXI term for "millenials", this would be it. Yall don't know what real pain is.
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 Bahamut.Mhysa
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By Bahamut.Mhysa 2022-02-25 17:48:35
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Tell me you're new, without telling me you're new.
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 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2022-02-25 18:01:29
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If there was a FFXI term for "millenials", this would be it. Yall don't know what real pain is.

I absolutely LOATHE when Millennials get lumped into some stupid reasoning.
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By Jetackuu 2022-02-25 18:22:37
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If there was a FFXI term for "millenials", this would be it. Yall don't know what real pain is.

I absolutely LOATHE when Millennials get lumped into some stupid reasoning.

Considering what most people refer to as "millennials" are actually genz, yeah...
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2022-02-25 18:33:58
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Experience loss is one of those things I'm not sure was ever a good design choice. Certainly not to the degree it happened. Maybe a small amount to deter people from "blood-porting" before the Warp Ring was invented something.

Weakness alone is a powerful deterrent to letting a party member fall to 0 HP. It's a punishment to the whole party because it's 5 minutes of inability to earn experience points (which is itself a net loss when grinding), or 5 minutes of being unable to contribute to a big fight.

I hear so many people cite experience loss as "way too punishing". Even I agree with that, as an avid defender of FFXI's design philosophies. It deters adventurers from trying new things, it punishes too harshly the tank who bravely sacrifices themself, and it adds too much to the grind.
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 Siren.Bruno
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By Siren.Bruno 2022-02-25 18:36:30
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if OP is a fairly newer player and confused by the responses, you used to lose a lot more EXP years ago upon dying, which made leveling down common. most all long-time players have painful experiences de-leveling. the EXP loss was later nerfed, so you didn't lose as much when you die, making EXP loss a now non-existent issue. now though, the concept of noticeably losing Exemplar points is all too familiar of a feeling to veterans, but probably a foreign concept to most new players.
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By Mattelot 2022-02-25 18:36:47
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Jetackuu said: »
Considering what most people refer to as "millennials" are actually genz, yeah...

This.
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 Fenrir.Velner
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By Fenrir.Velner 2022-02-25 18:51:27
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If there was a FFXI term for "millenials", this would be it. Yall don't know what real pain is.

This game's largest demographic is almost certainly millennials. . .

And I agree that EXP loss is pretty lame. . . but seeing "Level Down" for the first time in years just after Master Levels came out was pretty hilarious.
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2022-02-25 18:52:15
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One big difference between back then and now is that now, basically all events give EXP / CP / MXP so you can just play your normal stuff and get it back but back at 75 you'd have to go merit for a couple hours after a bad dynamis run or if you're a Thf, a normal dynamis run...

That said, I'm not a fan of death based exp loss of any type, much less the hardest stuff to get. And yeah, I realize it used to be worse but back then that loss stopped me from experimenting, stopped me from helping with dangerous stuff, stopped my from even doing some things at all because I wasn't sure I'd live and didn't want to have to get my buffer back. When I saw this, I thought to myself, they knew this was bad before because they significantly reduced the death penalty several times now, so why the hell would they put this back in place now? Especially now that we have harder events than ever before where you basically know you're going to die a dozen times before you figure the fight out and win.

I'll live with it, I've been through worse, but I don't like it.
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 Valefor.Philemon
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By Valefor.Philemon 2022-02-25 18:52:59
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Yeah I'm not sure I get the hate on the OP... I capped at ML20 before the cap was raised. Then one day I noticed I was down 10k exemplar points below the capped amount. Seems like an unnecessary penalty.
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 Odin.Lusiphur
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By Odin.Lusiphur 2022-02-25 19:05:17
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
One big difference between back then and now is that now, basically all events give EXP / CP / MXP so you can just play your normal stuff and get it back but back at 75 you'd have to go merit for a couple hours after a bad dynamis run or if you're a Thf, a normal dynamis run...

Not to mention your event job might not be a popular job to grab a quickly formed merit party on...
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2022-02-25 19:11:44
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the EXP penalty doesn't work as well with modern FFXI where everything is built around spammable/instanced content that you can easily and quickly HP and re-queue for if you die.

Maybe if Ambu/Ody bosses etc. gave a bit more exp than apex mobs to compensate
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 Asura.Shiehna
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By Asura.Shiehna 2022-02-25 19:24:41
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If there was a FFXI term for "millenials", this would be it. Yall don't know what real pain is.
Bro not trying to be rude but I'm pretty sure almost everyone who still plays FFXI is a millennial. As of this year the age range for the millennial generation is like 26-40. I get that some people on here might be a little bit younger or older than that range, but I doubt it would be by that much. I just turned 36 a few months ago, and I was 18 in 2003 when I first played FFXI, back when the game first came out.

Are you like 60 years old or something? Cause prolly like at least 75% of the remaining player base is most likely millennials, with the other 25% is roughly a mix between younger Gen X's and older Gen Z's. I'm not trying to say Exp loss was a bad thing, I dealt with it back in the 75 era just like everyone else who played XI back then.

But I do agree with others that back then the Exp loss was way more of an issue than it is now. It's more reasonable after SE adjusted the Exp loss, and I've never complained about it since I came back to the game in the 119 era. At least now you don't take as big of a hit when you're on a tank job or doing suicide mob pulls etc.
 Odin.Lusiphur
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By Odin.Lusiphur 2022-02-25 19:35:17
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I'm very much a "Xennial," thank you very much.
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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2022-02-25 19:39:45
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The restraint people have used thus far with nobody saying "Okay, boomer" is quite high.

Wait. Damn it! Now I went and said it. Wah wah wah.
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 Asura.Shiehna
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By Asura.Shiehna 2022-02-25 19:41:16
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Asura.Aeonova said: »
The restraint people have used thus far with nobody saying "Okay, boomer" is quite high.

Wait. Damn it! Now I went and said it. Wah wah wah.
Lol, I was tempted to but trying to be somewhat respectful. :P
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By RadialArcana 2022-02-25 20:01:12
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Lakshmi.Blackada said: »
It seems thst I lose exemplar points when dying to a mob that does not give exemplar points. It happened to me in a VR fight. Am I correct on this point? And if so surely it needs to be corrected.

It's not as big a deal as you think it is, you gain small amounts of them doing near anything on the game so unless you're dying over and over you gain it back, can also invest in RR items or spell to offset losses. It's annoying I agree if you're slowly grinding them out but the idea was to add a feeling of danger back into the game that had been missing for many players for quite a while.

They removed you losing them from dying in A.M.A.N Trove last month btw, so that's something.
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By GwenStacy 2022-02-26 13:51:38
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This is gold
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By Draylo 2022-02-26 14:04:03
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I just got asked the other day to raise, so they didnt have to HP and lose ML. I forgot thats a thing now lol
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 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2022-02-26 14:05:44
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Wow. That takes me back. Next thing ya know, I'll have to start a tele-taxi service again to afford a Noble's Tunic.
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 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2022-02-26 22:08:41
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Getting lost ML back isn't that difficult atm, do one C farm and you'll be capped back where you were before very quickly.

It's a grind, but it's not as essential of a grind as JP and experience is/was. In the past, getting 200 per kill meant getting to 75 was a drag but you had to do that to it for the endgame content. Most folks in my segment static got to ML20 fairly quickly just doing C farms and it's basically optional at this point unless you are doing really high level content like v20 t3/t4s in Odyssey. They even said themselves it is a marathon and not a sprint, so I imagine/hope it'll stay that way, where you passively earn ML and don't have to grind it quickly.

You can lose a ton of EP and make it back in 30min, so it's really not a bad penalty.

Asura.Aeonova said: »
Wow. That takes me back. Next thing ya know, I'll have to start a tele-taxi service again to afford a Noble's Tunic.

Or run a casino!

(please don't...)
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By Shichishito 2022-02-26 22:33:46
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for those that argue it re-introduces a sense of danger like one maybe felt sneaking thru promyvion zones for the first time - i don't agree. in order to achieve this it needs new areas to explore, without it the exp lose is just a annoyance imho.
 Asura.Aeonova
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By Asura.Aeonova 2022-02-26 23:01:52
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Shichishito said: »
a sense of danger like one maybe felt sneaking thru promyvion zones for the first time

To be fair, sneaking around Promyvion now-a-days isn't exactly the safest either.
 Valefor.Furyspawn
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By Valefor.Furyspawn 2022-02-27 07:29:16
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
One big difference between back then and now is that now, basically all events give EXP / CP / MXP so you can just play your normal stuff ...

I feel like they could increase the amount of exemplar points you get in older but still relatively current high-level content areas like Dynamis Divergence and to a lesser degree Omen (and possibly Vagary). Outside of Odyssey and apex mobs, nothing really rewards exemplar points.

I'm not sure what SE uses to determine content level, but the exemplar point rewards are too disparate. While mobs in Sheol C (129-135) hit way harder than apex mobs (e.g. 134-136 bats in Ra'Kaznar) and Dyna D fodder (134 in W2) of the same level, it seems like they all have a generally similar amount of hit points. Single-digit exemplar points in Dynamis Divergence don't make much sense when compared to the amount awarded by apex mobs or the (most likely inflated) values seen in Odyssey.

If I had to guess, SE isn't using something logical like ascribed content levels to determine exemplar points across the board, but instead picked a very limited set of specific enemies to manually apply non-trivial exemplar point ranges. It would be nice to see either the content levels brought in line to the exemplar points earned or vice versa.
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 Bahamut.Balduran
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By Bahamut.Balduran 2022-02-27 07:41:40
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Valefor.Furyspawn said: »
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
One big difference between back then and now is that now, basically all events give EXP / CP / MXP so you can just play your normal stuff ...

I feel like they could increase the amount of exemplar points you get in older but still relatively current high-level content areas like Dynamis Divergence and to a lesser degree Omen (and possibly Vagary). Outside of Odyssey and apex mobs, nothing really rewards exemplar points.

I'm not sure what SE uses to determine content level, but the exemplar point rewards are too disparate. While mobs in Sheol C (129-135) hit way harder than apex mobs (e.g. 134-136 bats in Ra'Kaznar) and Dyna D fodder (134 in W2) of the same level, it seems like they all have a generally similar amount of hit points. Single-digit exemplar points in Dynamis Divergence don't make much sense when compared to the amount awarded by apex mobs or the (most likely inflated) values seen in Odyssey.

If I had to guess, SE isn't using something logical like ascribed content levels to determine exemplar points across the board, but instead picked a very limited set of specific enemies to manually apply non-trivial exemplar point ranges. It would be nice to see either the content levels brought in line to the exemplar points earned or vice versa.

I think it's nice that the most efficient way to earn Exemplary Points remains at farming Apex mobs, and the recently introduced ones. If other content delivered same amount of points, it would kinda bring many people up to max level ML too fast. So the idea that players need to put the effort to grind Apex mobs for 60 minute session is justified. An Aeolian Edge AOE party can farm around 350k points per hour in Nyzel Isle Apex Gears, while a strong 3-step skillchain PT that can maintain chain 100+ will reach 200k points per hour. It just sucks that some players nowadays don't fancy grouping like back in the day, and choose to bot their job points / ML points.
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 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2022-02-27 07:46:31
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Quote:
Outside of Odyssey and apex mobs, nothing really rewards exemplar points.

I have a feeling the upcoming empyrean +3 farming content will serve to fill the gap nicely, whatever it may be. Upgrading JSE has always been a process that involved collecting a bunch of McGuffinas and trading them into a NPC for the finished product, and I see no reason to believe this pass will be any different. The content will have to have higher Ilvl enemies to justify the reward, so whatever fodder mobs we end up fighting should serve nicely as both exemplar batteries as well as a means to upgrade our equipment. I'm not rushing the EP farming process because of that. S-E DID say they would be adding new ways to farm EP in the future, and the way higher mastery levels are already scaling means we'll need better camps soon enough. I'd reserve judgment for now. I suspect this is a problem that will solve itself naturally as future updates come out.
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