Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!: RDM Guide

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Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!: RDM Guide
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By Argisto 2020-10-14 20:57:42
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Node 425
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By Argisto 2020-10-14 21:00:11
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Safety Post
Things left to do:
Table of Contents
NM section-this is going to take some time
Some more proofreading

If someone could DM me a way to set up a table of contents I would appreciate it. I am barely a bbcode novice

If you see any errors or things that need to be added let me know
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By Argisto 2020-10-25 01:04:00
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I guess I'll put part 2 of this test in this thread. Updated original post in other thread:

Argisto said: »
Did some magic burst testing on Apex crabs. AAEV, Ulmia and Yoran-Oran trusts, max Gain-INT. Self SC CDC>CDC>Light>Thunder V, no weather/neutral day. Only have NQ Ea, here's the set I used:
ItemSet 375949
Amalric hands/feet path D, Cape INT +30/Mag. Acc +20 Mag. Dmg. +20/Mag. Att. Bonus +10

First, MB Test set vs Locus ring swapped in instead of Freke
MB Test: 57001
Locus: 56922
Got the same results 3 crabs in a row.

Next, MB Test vs Vitiation Boots +3 instead of Amalric Nails +1
MB Test: 57001
Vitiation Boots +3: 55326

Third, MB Test vs R15 Metamorph Ring +1 instead of Freke
MB Test: 57467
Metamorph Ring +1: 57041

Lastly, MB Test vs Jhakri Ring instead of Freke and Jhakri Feet +2 instead of Amalric Nails +1
MB Test: 56609
Jhakri Ring/Feet: 53655


Edit: Forgot to add in Maxentius MB bonus on last test totals and was way overcapped on MB bonus damage, therefore Jhakri ring was doing basically nothing. Added one more test with just Jhakri Pigaches +2 swapped in
MB Test: 56609
Jhakri Pigaches +2: 54963

Looks like Mujin/Locus ring combo are not very far behind Freke/Mujin. Metamorph Ring is also a good contender.

Also did some testing a week ago with NQ Ea Pigaches. Don't have the numbers handy, but they were about 5k damage behind MB test set. They are so bad in fact that NQ Jhakri Pigaches beat them out.

Jhakri Ring instead of Freke Ring
MB Test: 57467
Jhakri Ring: 56793

Some extra testing:
NQ Ea Pigaches instead of Amalric Nails +1
MB Test: 56609
Ea Pigaches: 51733

NQ Jhakri Pigaches vs NQ Ea Pigaches
Jhakri Pigaches: 52107
Ea Pigaches: 51733
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By HyperKTM 2020-10-25 02:34:07
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shout out to you and nuance been a big help in gearing up my rdm. Really nice job on the guide argisto
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By Felgarr 2020-10-25 06:26:43
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Thank you so much. This guide helps me tweak my DD RDM and nuking sets. I really appreciate the attention to detail AND the list of different weapon combinations at the end. (This was something I posted about a while ago. I can really be a challenge to decide which weapon combo you want to use with RDM, depending on what you want to do, for a given fight). Thanks again!
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-10-25 09:45:52
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For the table of contents you'd need to adjust each header like this:
Code
[div ID="top"]Table of Contents:[/div]
[url="#what"]What is the Rune Fencer?[/url]
[div ID="what" align="center"] [h1][color=#0558EC]What is the Rune Fencer?[/h1][/div]

This was taken from my RUN guide and it was confusing at first. Hope it helps.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-10-25 12:11:06
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I am going to read through this guide and check it out, see if I can learn anything new about RDM. But I just wanted to point out that the title is disgustingly offensive and accurate :(


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 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2020-10-25 16:00:43
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I am going to read through this guide and check it out, see if I can learn anything new about RDM. But I just wanted to point out that the title is disgustingly offensive and accurate :(



The body title definitely needs to be updated with those graphics
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By SimonSes 2020-10-26 20:02:34
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I am going to read through this guide and check it out, see if I can learn anything new about RDM. But I just wanted to point out that the title is disgustingly offensive and accurate :(



BLU: stun, tp reset, AoE non-wind elemental damage, Erase/ga, AoE cure, 10+ blink shadows, breakga, sleepga, MDB down, counters, drown (-65STR), Burn (-63 INT), Doomga, High Defense, native DW
NIN: Migawari, Enmity generation, native DW, high HP, Utsusemi shadows.

Just some things that RDM wont do better or wont do at all (Can try to do some with /whm, /nin or /sch, but still mostly worse).
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2020-10-26 20:53:39
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is it just me, or are the enhancing self cast/other cast sets swapped?
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-10-26 22:42:33
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"No You can't!"

"Yes I can!"

"No you can't!!!"

Yes I cannnnnnnnnn!"

(sorry, someone had to- but nice work. RDM forum needs a well-maintained sticky)
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By Argisto 2020-10-27 18:29:25
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
For the table of contents you'd need to adjust each header like this:

Thank you! I'll mess around with it tomorrow night when I have some free time.
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By Littleflame 2020-10-28 18:02:38
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Great guide so far. One thing I need to point out is the BG enspell formula for 500+ skill stops working after 600 skill.
At 641 going by the formula Floor[(400/3098)(Skill+3.65)] damage should be 83 plus any gifts and merits (121 for mastered and 5/5 merits), but in game 641 skill equals 82 base damage.

642 Skill


641 Skill


I'm master and 5/5 Enspell damage merits so subtract 23 for gifts and 15 for merits.

Full image dump for thresholds past 600 skill

Known about this for months and others probably have too but I never saw a post about it. Since this is a new guide better to fix it here.

(edit) 23 enspell damage from gifts not 24
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 Asura.Chendar
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By Asura.Chendar 2020-10-28 20:02:11
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3/25*skill + 6

fits for all those samples at least

Edit:

3*(skill + 50) / 25 might be a better form I guess?

Edit2:

Floored obviously, so floor(3 * (skill + 50) / 25)
 Asura.Chendar
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By Asura.Chendar 2020-10-28 20:31:12
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Checked it with the old testing and it seems to hold true for everything > 500 skill. (at 500 skill exactly it's off by one so for 501+)

Seems like sample size was a bit on the low side for the old testing maybe?
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By Argisto 2020-10-28 23:57:14
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Table of contents has been added, total Enspell gifts corrected, Enspell formula updated
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By sumo 2020-10-31 03:08:54
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Does Emissary have a place in the RDM weaponry hierarchy?
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By Crossbones 2020-10-31 10:31:44
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Maybe idle or fast cast piece for a very new rdm. Definitely wouldn't use it for dps or enfeebles as even kaja weapons are better for that.
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By Argisto 2020-10-31 13:53:04
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Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
is it just me, or are the enhancing self cast/other cast sets swapped?

Are they? They look ok to me. Not sure if anyone else is seeing this.
 Asura.Chendar
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By Asura.Chendar 2020-10-31 15:19:29
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Argisto said: »
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
is it just me, or are the enhancing self cast/other cast sets swapped?

Are they? They look ok to me. Not sure if anyone else is seeing this.

Didn't wanna comment in case you'd already fixed a potential mix-up, but sets seem pretty on point to me as they are right now.

Full enh. magic duration % for self. 4/5 empy(composure bonus) + AF+3 gloves for others.
 Ragnarok.Lowen
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By Ragnarok.Lowen 2020-11-17 19:15:10
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Does anyone know the math behind Orpheus Sash versus Obi for elemental weaponskills? Primarly wondering about Sanguine Blade in Dynamis Divergence. I currently use my Orpheus Sash for the bigger spikes (The highest I've hit was 68k, regular average closer to 40-50k), but I only get a Wizard's roll and Malaise), but I've never really understood exactly how the Orpheus Sash modifier compares against the straight multiplier from obis.

On the same topic, what's a good benchmark Sanguine number in dynamis?
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2020-11-17 23:57:05
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Ragnarok.Lowen said: »
Does anyone know the math behind Orpheus Sash versus Obi for elemental weaponskills? Primarly wondering about Sanguine Blade in Dynamis Divergence. I currently use my Orpheus Sash for the bigger spikes (The highest I've hit was 68k, regular average closer to 40-50k), but I only get a Wizard's roll and Malaise), but I've never really understood exactly how the Orpheus Sash modifier compares against the straight multiplier from obis.

On the same topic, what's a good benchmark Sanguine number in dynamis?

Short answer is day + weather or better obi wins for average damage.

Long answer:

Ok first I will assume you are as close to the mob as possible for the full .15 affinity from orpheus, it is often possible to still melee but not get the full effect. Affinity and weather effects are separate multipliers to magic damage so as long as we are only concerned with orpheus and obi can cancel out rest of formula as a constant. Weather has a 1/3 proc chance without obi

We want to find the weather bonus needed for obi to win based on how much other affinity you have before orpheus. We expect the more other sources of affinity we have the less weather/day bonus you need for obi to be better than orpheus. Then we just need to find the points where we cross .25 weather bonus (double weather) .20 weather bonus (day + weather) and maybe look at .15 (double weather -day) and keep in mind you should have at least .28 affinity for pixie +1 for sanguine at least .50 from daybreak for seraph.

(1+a+.15)(1+w/3) = (1+a)(1+w)
or dusting off some algebra
w = 3/(((2 +2a)/.15)-1)

Double weather is 0.25 weather bonus and we find that for all positive values of affinity obi is better with double weather bonus since it is above the line. At 0 other affinity the crossover point is 0.243 weather bonus which is between .25 and .2 so with 0 other sources of affinity you'll want to use obi for double weather or better and orpheus for day + weather or worse. The next important point to consider is when weather is 0.20 which is day + weather, we find that at .20 other affinity, so for greater than .20 affinity from other sources you'll want to use obi for day + weather as well. If you have less than .20 other affinity you'll want to only use obi for double weather or better. For both Sanguine and Seraph blade you should have more than .20 affinity from other sources when you are using them so use obi when you have day + weather or better. Dynamis has double dark weather so Obi should be better on average for Sanguine by a decent amount unless its lights day.

Seraph blade with daybreak and weatherspoon ring +1 actually has enough affinity obi should be worth using even with double light weather and darks day for .15 weather bonus since its over .58 other affinity.

Even longer answer involves then scaling the .15 for different distances but that's more of a concern for cor, rng and for nuking and you then have to consider mab waist options which adds a lot more of the formula having to be considered.

I dont really have a good benchmark I'm usually getting physical buffs.
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By SimonSes 2020-11-18 04:04:10
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There is even longer answer :O

Part of improved avg damage for O. Sash comes from big spikes that comes from improved damage from affinity with random weather proc on top. Improved avg from Obi comes from damage improvement on every Sanguine, but there is no spikes.

So while both avg might be close, O. Sash will have lower base and higher ceiling.

For example O. Sash will do 45k, 45k, 54k (avg 48)
While Obi will do 48k, 48k, 48k (avg 48)

So avg is the same but in practical scenario if trash mobs has 40-50k hp I think in wave 1 and slightly more in wave 2 and you want to one shot them to avoid SP going off, its far easier to do this with predictable and consistent damage with Obi vs irregular damage with O. Sash.
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