Monk In Nyzul Isle Uncharted

I know the 2h DD's are more favored for this, but I'm wondering why specifically. Does Embrava just favor War, Drk, and Sam more than it does Mnk?
I haven't done the new NI yet, but from what I see, every shout group I've seen seems to only look for DRK, WAR, SAM, SCH.
I've heard that kraken RNG is really good for it, as well as BLU for various reasons. Is MNK that far behind the above-mentioned DD (given equivalent gear/skill)?

Another line of query I have for those of you who have run it as MNK. Full-time Counterstance or situational use? Also, did you re-merit for 5/5 Formless Strikes (assuming you would drop Invigorate for this)?

A separate subject but related - Some friends and I are going to start doing this in a couple weeks. I'm wondering if I should go as MNK or BLU. My MNK is about to get his level 90 Vere and BLU has 85 Almace. Both have good TP and WS gear, although my BLU's magic spell gear could use some work. Thoughts on this? Perhaps I can answer this myself depending on the answer to my initial question about monks' value in NI.

Thanks for the help guys.

P.S. Please refrain from sarcastic/degrading posts in this thread. An extra ounce of maturity is much appreciated.

I'm 15/15, one of our static members was a MNK, MNK works fine in NNI, fodder are fodder, shouts just tend to hover around either the hivemind, or the idiot proof way to do it. A good MNK > A stupid WAR/SAM/DRK > A stupid MNK, basically. Formless Strikes (Or Twilight Scythe) is wonderful for certain custard NMs. But MNK not being on Powder Boots is a bit of a hindrance.

If I had the option for a Good MNK vs. a Good BLU I'd take the BLU, Powder Boots/a fair bit more utility, light based Dispel on Flayers, Sudden Lunge, Blunt/Piercing/Slashing for Pots/Other silliness. CA SC's obliterate mobs etc.

I tell this to everyone who asks, but NNI is first and foremost about good communication, make sure you guys are on vent/skype/what have you, if possible. Everything else just comes to you, the gears move better as you have more experience. Oh, and make sure everyone has some type of throwing weapon, Darts, Chakram, Lamiabane is all jobs, so the SCH's have something. Gears can cripple you.

And don't be too put down when NNI just decides to stomp on your face:

Hit 99, WS restricted, avoid discovery by gears, Genbu and King Arthro having tea in a corner with a gaggle of gears.

The biggest factors in any NNI group will be attention span, engage speed, and ability to not suddenly go full retard when lamps load. One of my groups has had over a 50% win rate with me dualboxing 2 brawny adargas MNK mules, and I have over 65 total f100 pieces on my characters so definitely don't think of MNK as a major negative.

You should merit 5/5 formless for sure, though this was the case before nyzul anyway. Invigorate is never going to make you go "Oh my GOD, I'm so glad I have this.". Formless will, even if it's used less frequently. Drop counterstance if you have a significant amount of aggro on the way to a specified enemy or lamp, or for anything with a rough physical move(pretty sure f20/40/60 lamia has EES, nerve render qiqirn definitely does, and bloodrake from f80 can be nasty if you save fanatics for 100 though I prefer to use it on 80).

As far as MNK vs BLU, it'll depend how comfortable you are with your BLU. MP management can be an issue, but having cures for no white magic floors and requiescat for puddings/slimes is nice. BLU also has access to both powder boots and wlegs, while MNK can't wear powder boots at all. If your group has 3 heavy DD(DRK WAR MNK SAM) and you're comfortable with your BLU, it'll be a clear winner. If your group already has another BLU, or is using some weaker DD like NIN/DNC/w.e because you like the people, you'll probably want to go MNK.

Another good tip for MNK is to ride out Aftermath Lv.3 on Verethragna. Between that and an enspell you kill fodder mobs rather quickly. WS killing a mob will just slow you down a bit, unless its the final mob for a clear. Also, while you cannot use Powder boots, MNK can still use the Hermes Quencher. Sure, it's one use per run but the times I've used it were all worth it.

If this is stating what I think it is stating -- I couldn't disagree more. Aside from a minor exception or two, weapon skilling will always cause you to kill mobs more quickly than not weapon skilling.

You should rarely hold your TP in NNI under the precept that "I'll be killing mobs less efficiently/quickly if I weapon skill."

That being said, you should weapon skill wisely -- if you are in a room full of mobs, and you hit 100 TP as your current mob only has 15% HP left, then sure -- save your weapon skill to unload on a mob that is at full HP.

The other exception would be versus PDT resistant pudding, mousses, and PDT resistant custards. With formless strikes up -- yea, you'll do more damage purely doing auto-attacks than you would by adding in weapon skills.

Also, if you have the choice between spharai versus vere -- I had far better results with spharai. A bit of extra counter, upgraded weapon rank/base damage, on top of the fact that the crit based smite doesn't shine nearly as much on fodder as it does on HNMs.

Regarding another comment above -- there should honestly be a snowflake's chance in hell of you ever having to drop counterstance. Embrava, Regen 5, hermes sandals, and even a half-*** PDT set should keep you alive through just about anything -- and it would be a shame to be without counterstance for 1-5 minutes on the proceeding floors because you clicked it off from 10 mobs that won't be able to make a dent on you through embrava/regen.

Mobs hit for 100+ with cs, 5 mobs at 60% acc is still going to drop you in 30 seconds. It's up to the person to make the decision, but it's better to drop cs than die. The qiqirn with EES has one shotted me with CS before(galka), so at the very least you should PDT it. It's much better to lose CS than to die, universally, so if you think there's a chance you're going to die then cancel it.

Topics are often like a booger. You better know what you are going to do with it before you pull it out.

Yeah. I didn't think that through and should've been alot more specific. I tried not to WS kill, I would WS on a full HP mob though. Nothing sucks more than being locked for a few seconds due to animations on disengaging.

@Comeat: Right, but like I said -- the point is that between 150 HP/tick regen, Sprinter's drink, a hermes quencher, PDT/MDT, fool's drink, and fanatic's drink, there are at least half a dozen things one should consider doing before removing counterstance -- because like you say, even if the mobs have 60% accuracy, you'll be taking more of a beating on the forthcoming floors that you are lacking CS on.

@Alistrianna: Yea, I figured you didn't really mean it how I was interpreting it--just wanted to make sure the OP didn't get the wrong impression. :) And yea -- between being locked for 5 seconds after weapon skill animations, and mobs randomly readjusting their position so they are no longer in front of you, I've flipped/broken many a table in Nyzul.

I know I should probably just JA0, but I'm just way too paranoid with that sh*t.

To add something else, for the same reason that victory smite "ain't so hot" in NNI -- brawny adragas will not be quite as far behind the normal standard of dps since spiral performs so well (assuming you at least have a decent WS set). So as was stated above, lacking a relic/empy shouldn't complete bum feck you from doing decent dps. Will you be top tier? Of course not, but I'm sure its good enough to be successful.

CS in nyzul is an offensive JA, not a defensive JA. You're universally safer without it, as most of your time is spent disengaged with mobs you can't counter. Even when engaged, you won't be facing trains all of the time and phalanx's effect drastically reduces counterstance's utility vs mobs you are facing(you get hit for so much more that the countered hits dont result in a damage taken decrease).

As an offensive JA, it's pretty weak in nyzul so the slightest chance of death should get rid of it. How common that is depends on a lot of things, and I do agree it's not particularly common though.

LOL

So if I have a 90 Vere, should I still use Spiral instead of VS?

I'd say if you have 300tp due to lamp floor or something, to at least use Smite for the Lv3 aftermath. I can't speak for the effectiveness of Shijin Spiral vs. the fodder as I didn't have it at the time.

Like Alis said - I can't help but make an educated guess that the added crit rate from 300 TP smite + aftermath would always be the better choice over spiral.

When it comes down to making a more blanket statement of "Spiral vs Smite" against fodder mobs, I can't make any better of a recommendation than plugging in your gear to Moten's sheets and make a couple comparisons vs. fodder mobs given your gear/food/etc. As usual, impetus/berserk up versus impertus/berserk down will be a factor as well -- it just boils down to how precise you want to become and how much gear you want to lug around.

The bottom line is that spiral is capable of producing more pleasantly consistent numbers, as opposed to smite where the average WS becomes a combination of all those "omg fullcrit/double/triple attack/berserk/impetus up WS's", along with the limp noodle-"I may as well have just kept auto-attacking Smites", where you have zero crits.

Not to mention that the plague sticks on soulflayers/frogs/chariots.

F*cking hate soulflayers.

MNK is beast in NNI. I've won about 23 runs now, and most of the time we've had 1 or up to 3 Emp MNKs.

- High HP
- High DMG for WS
- Huge DOT numbers

I don't know about yall but I get White Magic restricted floors even more of the no JA/WS floors. Those floors can really slow down a DRK, WAR group while MNK just rapes through it.

If i had Shijin Spiral, even with my 90 vere, i would use them intermittenly (sp) - Spiral tends to perform better on mobs than VS while impetus/berserk is down, while smite performs better when it's up, depending on you DEX/Attack stats for spiral, and STR/DEX/Acc/Att/Crit bonuses for smite.

I've gone to NNI as MNK a few times, it's fun and interesting, has it's perks and pitfalls. I've been slammed at floor 100 with 3:30 minutes to kill the boss with a weaponskill restrict effect, where MNK would clearly have dominated. Possibly even a good puppetmaster, but that's still kind lols

If the MNK is skilled and geared to the teeth it will do amazingly. Mnks who only casually play mnk will not out do a casual warrior. So with that in mind, if someone is coming mnk make sure they love the job and equip it well. I used to use spharai on climbs and 60 80 and 100 bosses i would toss on verethragna for the ws enhance. i also had macros for my weapons so it was an instant switch with no delay of manually switching my gear.