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Death Scythe/Tredecim Scythe/Moliones's Set
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 02:53:11
would be sweet if samurai can dual wield >.>
a gkt and a katana. be epic :D
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 02:54:40
Hades.Excelior said: Noob question probably but does apocalypse with +26% gear haste benefit from sword strap? I was never sure how -delay interacted with haste caps since there's so little gear that has it. final delay=weapon delay*(1-delay%)*(1-haste)
Where delay% is your delay- gear and haste is expressed in fractions of 1024. Since they're independent of each other, capped haste doesn't affect delay reduction (nor does it affect the benefit; delay-3% is 3.09% to non-JA DPS with no other factors in play).
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 02:56:35
Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 02:59:07
Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation.
Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic".
I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day.
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:00:13
Odin.Zicdeh said: Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation. Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic". I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day.
*Cough* Exeter, nah he is a good guy, didn't realize you were in his LS.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 03:02:24
I wouldn't say clearly... It breaks your 6-hit if you're just using Rajas + Pole. At the very least you'd have to TP in additional STP and possibly WS in it as well depending on how much you add. Askar body would let you WS in whatever and retain your 6-hit, as would Aurum if you needed the 6 accuracy. Depending on the situation losing EBody's accuracy for TP phase might make it a poor choice.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 03:02:59
Hades.Excelior said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation. Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic". I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day.
*Cough* Exeter, nah he is a good guy, didn't realize you were in his LS.
Exeter Totally would use 5/5 Askar and apoc. if he could even afford to pay off his Are's cuirass! He's lucky I don't charge interest.
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By Hades.Stefanos 2010-05-03 03:04:42
Hades.Excelior said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation. Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic". I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day.
*Cough* Exeter, nah he is a good guy, didn't realize you were in his LS.
Exeter from Hades? He went to Odin?
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 305
By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:06:04
Hades.Stefanos said: Hades.Excelior said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation. Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic". I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day. *Cough* Exeter, nah he is a good guy, didn't realize you were in his LS. Exeter from Hades? He went to Odin?
Nah different Exeter, used to lead mooglelounge on odin, its a HNM linkshell.
@Zicdeh
That douche bag told me he finished aegis, now I'm not sure I believe him.
Serveur: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 03:07:50
Hades.Excelior said: Hades.Stefanos said: Hades.Excelior said: Odin.Zicdeh said: Hades.Excelior said: Interesting most apoc drks don't use sword strap then when its clearly better than pole in that situation. Most Apocalypse Dark Knights are idiots though, who know nothing more than "Apocalypse is the best Melee Relic". I swear, I saw one exping in 5/5 Askar, soooooo my faith in humanity died that day. *Cough* Exeter, nah he is a good guy, didn't realize you were in his LS. Exeter from Hades? He went to Odin?
Nah different Exeter, used to lead mooglelounge on odin, its a HNM linkshell.
@Zicdeh
That douche bag told me he finished aegis, now I'm not sure I believe him.
The only thing Exe ever finished was a bag of Cheetos!
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:10:59
with 25% haste and sword strap
apocalyspe has a "delay" of 373 delay
so with that alone and no buffs you're attacking every 6 seconds essentially.
Question:
after relic weapons are fully upgraded by magian quests.
would ragnarok hit harder than apocalyspe
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 03:12:36
I don't understand the question. Outdamage on a per-hit basis? Not a chance. Outparse Apoc? Also not happening, but partially for different reasons.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 03:13:46
Only if the Apocalypse Wielder was AFK.
Ragnarok becomes a beast in sustained DPS after the Magian quests, but you aren't dropping 150m JUST for the weapon... Unless you have a *** for Grtsword WAR and also have DRK, Ragnarok should never even cross your mind over Apoc*
*Of course, it's your gil, if you want Ragnarok, go for it. Don't get a relic for anyone but yourself.
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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Posts: 1294
By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:16:10
lol cuz i was just wondering cuz i was looking at hte numbers and adding adding the x2 and x2.5 modifiers that each weapon occaisonally does.
I know that in a multihit ws, it has the potential to do far superior numbers than single hit ws.
but single hit ws is more consistent from my experience
so just curious lol
and yes when fighting i normally do have capped acc.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 03:17:53
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: lol cuz i was just wondering cuz i was looking at hte numbers and adding adding the x2 and x2.5 modifiers that each weapon occaisonally does.
I know that in a multihit ws, it has the potential to do far superior numbers than single hit ws.
but single hit ws is more consistent from my experience
so just curious lol
and yes when fighting i normally do have capped acc. Huh? Both have the 2.5x procs and both (primarily) utilize single-hit WS. I really don't understand where you're coming from here.
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:18:09
I always thought unbuffed that ragnarok would beat apoc vs hard mobs due to the crit bonus being such a huge advantage at low ranges of Pdif. I'm probably wrong but thats the only way I could ever see it happening.
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:20:21
Well i read on ffxi wiki that apocalyspe only has x2dmg proc
while ragnarok has a x2.5 dmg proc...
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-03 03:21:48
They also have very different base damage.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 03:22:17
Since Scourge can't crit your DPS would be skewed over towards TP phase, where Apoc potentially has advantages in hitrate on the same targets along with the Haste boost. The swaps you can make in place of haste gear don't hurt either... it's something to think about but I'd still expect Apoc to win.
EDIT: That may be, but it's a fairly small increase to your DPS. ~50% of your damage in TP phase (doesn't proc on WS), 10% of that, then a 25% increase to that specific portion of your DPS... 1.25% increase overall. Not a huge factor in Ragnarok's favor, but I guess it's there.
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:23:11
well if u do the math
apocalyspe (post magian) 110dmg
ragnarok (post magian) 95
110 x 2 = 220
95 x 2.5 = 237.5
so...iono
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:24:17
wait..why can't scourge not crit?
[+]
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 03:24:37
I heard the best option on DRK Ragnarok was to ignore Scourge and stick with the massive DPS and Spinning Slash.
I'm certainly in no position to test that... but it seems to me that any theory that involves ignoring the Aftermath of the relic WS is just kind of..... wrong?
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:25:44
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: well if u do the math apocalyspe (post magian) 110dmg ragnarok (post magian) 95 110 x 2 = 220 95 x 2.5 = 237.5 so...iono
Apoc wins because:
1. A+ weapon vs an A- weapon which is a difference of about
10accuracy/attack
2. Apocalypse gives you 10% gear haste using the WS which is much more significant in damage over time than + crit rate.
3. Apocalypse has 6 hit and the ability to chain aftermath; ragnarok does not(at least not that I've seen)
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-05-03 03:27:41
well i was just going off melee dmg not ws.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-03 03:28:41
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: well if u do the math
apocalyspe (post magian) 110dmg
ragnarok (post magian) 95
110 x 2 = 220
95 x 2.5 = 237.5
so...iono On a very specific portion of your DPS while completely ignoring the fact that Apoc's fSTR will be higher and so will its pDIF. In the long run Ragnarok's relic procs probably match Apoc's, if not fall behind them.
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: wait..why can't scourge not crit? Doesn't say that it can, therefore it can't. Do not get me started on this one. It can't without SATA.
Odin.Zicdeh said: I heard the best option on DRK Ragnarok was to ignore Scourge and stick with the massive DPS and Spinning Slash.
I'm certainly in no position to test that... but it seems to me that any theory that involves ignoring the Aftermath of the relic WS is just kind of..... wrong? Scourge kinda sucks... I could see this being true on harder mobs where pDIF wouldn't naturally be high. On merit mobs and such I'd favor Scourge, but against HNM when I'm not getting attack buffs? Spinning Slash would probably be the way to go.
[+]
Serveur: Hades
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:28:57
Odin.Zicdeh said: I heard the best option on DRK Ragnarok was to ignore Scourge and stick with the massive DPS and Spinning Slash. I'm certainly in no position to test that... but it seems to me that any theory that involves ignoring the Aftermath of the relic WS is just kind of..... wrong?
I'm sure scourge hits harder than Spinning slash in situations where you don't need the Pdif modifier from Spinning Slash. I definately would not use scourge on HNM or simliar stuff; It would do 100-150ish damage tops.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 03:29:08
I always thought Apocalypse Aftermath was 5% haste for some reason.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-03 03:30:26
There's a hilarious Ragnarok DRK on Bahamut with a say macro for his Scourge where it's spelled "SCOUGE!" in caps.
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-03 03:34:26
Bismarck.Dracondria said: There's a hilarious Ragnarok DRK on Bahamut with a say macro for his Scourge where it's spelled "SCOUGE!" in caps.
Rag drks are very special people.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-03 03:35:16
He's Japanese too so he obviously doesn't know he's wrong.
Ok im looking for help deciding on a scythe, My current options are Death Scythe augmented with acc+4 HP+22, Tredecim, or Moliones's set. For this we are assuming I have 6hit/capped acc for each weapon against Greater Colibri.
Edit: Also i wanted to add, Would it be benificial to wear a sword strap on the 528 dly scythes if I could still hold 6 hit?
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