Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

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Bushido - The Way of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-16 23:15:50
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Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Are you saying there isn't an attack bonus on howilng fist? (I'm not actually sure, don't play monk). And if anything, most WSC was fine and the NA side turned out to be wrong unless you can name some specific examples.

Does Jinpu WS dmg outside of the magic portion even vary by tp? That should be easy to test, just grab something like a wind ele that won't take any wind dmg.

Sorry was Tornado Kick. The three GKT WS's were thought to have the same attack bonus, turns out they didn't. And several BLU WSC mods were wrong, notably Sinker Drill previously being thought "DEX based" when it really was STR / VIT.

Does Jinpu WS dmg outside of the magic portion even vary by tp? That should be easy to test, just grab something like a wind ele that won't take any wind dmg.

The physical hit is just like any other WS, and the magic damage takes it's base from the physical thus the entire WS is damaged based on TP. The mods were reported as 0.5 / 0.75 / 1.0 and that was put on every single hybrid WS include Katana's. That is almost certainly wrong.

The damage Austar is predicting above is slightly over half of what we're seeing which is what immediately caught my attention. He said 46 ~ 48K on a double QA proc (8 hit 1/1000 chance), but we're seeing that on a three or four hit. With both Frailty and Maliase we did a string of 70~99K WS's with the bottom being in the 60's. So there is something missing, either WSD coping on all hits or some screwy fTP like multipliers.
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By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-07-16 23:23:29
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As I pointed out, the mods were never .5 / .75 / 1.0 These were the percentage of the physical dmg that got applied as magical damage. As far as I'm aware, jinpu just has a standard 1.0 http://ftp.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-16 23:24:51
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Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Question about earlier in the thread, WSD applies to all hit of sturmwind? Where's the testing on that? Was just curious since I'd never heard about it before.

Yep, not only that but Sneak Attack also applies to both hits and any Multi-Attack procs that happen.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/47072-Sneak-Attack-Sturmwind

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Weapon_Skill_Damage

Quote:
This statistic has been inconsistently implemented, but it is always a straight damage multiplier. Most sources only apply to the first swing of the weapon skill (including the additional magic effect for hybrid weapon skills, or applied to all of a magic weapon skill). However, some sources apply to all swings of the weapon skill (like Magian Trials Weapon Skill Damage +n% weapons).
Even more confusingly, some sources of this that only apply to the first hit of Weapon Skills actually apply to both hits of some Weapon Skills, like Sturmwind and Atonement.

I abused the *** out of Sturmwind leveling up, at least until you got better stuff in the 55~60 range.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-16 23:31:41
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Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
As I pointed out, the mods were never .5 / .75 / 1.0 These were the percentage of the physical dmg that got applied as magical damage. As far as I'm aware, jinpu just has a standard 1.0 http://ftp.

And how about Goten, Kagero, Koki, To, Chi, Teki, and Flaming Arrow? That every single hybrid WS was given the exact same TP modifiers is extremely suspicious to say the least. Also austar just demonstrated 0.5 fTP at 1000.
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By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-07-16 23:34:43
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Yeah, I always loved sturmwind when leveling, but obviously you don't have any WSD gear at that level, lol. I'm curious about where the source on the WSD reference is from...

As for gobli, I don't see anything for tornado kick about increased attack. The 3 GK ws's... so they're actually just ignore defense right? The mechanic might be different but the effect is almost the same. And I don't even see an entry for sinker drill on gobli's site, he doesn't seem to have any blu magic about lvl 75. The JP wiki on the other hand, oldest entry from 2014 shows STR/VIT
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-07-16 23:42:19
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Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
so they're actually just ignore defense right?

No they give you an attack boost, old report was 100% attack boost which gave SAM an insane advantage on HNM's back in the day.

SAM's used to debate for weeks on whether they were all the same or not because they had the same 75% STR WSC and fTP but some people would claim Gekko gave them better numbers then Yuki or Kasha. Eventually it was discovered that Yuki was 50% attack bonus, Gekko 100% attack bonus and Kasha 65% attack bonus.

I've been burned for following information that was "tested" back at 75 era, so now it's either a semi-recent test or it can't be trusted.

Quote:
Yeah, I always loved sturmwind when leveling, but obviously you don't have any WSD gear at that level, lol. I'm curious about where the source on the WSD reference is from...

No but you did have /THF and there was a long period between 30 and 50 that you could abuse it in. Sturmwinds TP Bonus was an attack boost and at that level it's really hard to cap attack so once every 60s you could do a crazy powerful attack. On DRK I would sometimes to SE LR SA Sturmwind and just laugh at a level 30 dealing upper three digits on mandies in the jungle.
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By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-07-16 23:47:18
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Hmm, I guess the .5 ftp does look ok with those results

I do remember some conversation I had ages ago with night about blade to and other nin hybrid ws's having really crappy first hit ftp too now that I think about it.

I wonder if it's possible both ftp and magic dmg portion increase from tp? That would certainly make using doji strong. Also I just noticed on the jp wiki, it makes a comment that jinpu was actually buffed in 2014 to make the magic portion stronger, but noone ever attempted to nail down the exact values.
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By Fenrir.Tarowyn 2017-07-16 23:51:19
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Even in the original gobli post on ws I see a comment saying that atk boost on Gekko >= Kasha > Yuki. So while he didn't try and nail down exact numbers, it was reasonably accurate.

I don't think you can apply the SA logic to WSD without testing though, that seems a questionable at best... Also, looking later in that original thread, some guy said he replicated the SA WS thing with enpi. This matches what the jp wiki which states that the 2nd hit on SA WS is guaranteed to hit but won't crit.
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By jopa 2017-07-16 23:53:40
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Quote:
magic damage from weapon does not apply to the magic portion of jinpu.

I'm not so sure anymore because magic damage is being applied to skill chains and it is applied to magic WS's. The current info is just ***people copied from Studio Gobli over a decade ago without any verification and most of that has long since been disproved.
Just thought I'd point out that this might be easily tested with an Invincible target or the Shantotto NMs. If Magic Damage+ is applied it should do damage to a Lode Golem or Blest Bones because the base damage becomes greater than 0. This is the case for the magical portion of Flaming Crush, at least (it does indeed use the Magic Damage+ stat from Avatar: Lv.+ gear and job points).
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 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2017-07-17 03:53:42
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On Lode Golem with Aeonic Jinpu did 9DMG naked otherwise(1k +500 from Aeonic and at 3k). Umaru did 0 DMG. so it is calculated at some point. Just to make sure it wasn't something weird with Aeonic adding 10 more Magic Damage via Ghastly Tathlum got it to do 10DMG.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-07-17 07:14:54
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
a single quad would do more than two doubles with all other variables staying the same, though.

Of course but there isn't enough QA for it to be responsible for the frequent high damage. Your only showing high damage in rare situations, when you get a QA and then some. That would result in some mediocre hits followed by a crazy high one but what we're seeing is every other WS being a stupidly strong one.
I was only doing 8 hits to show it wasn't close to what you were getting.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-07-17 07:41:27
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Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
As I pointed out, the mods were never .5 / .75 / 1.0 These were the percentage of the physical dmg that got applied as magical damage. As far as I'm aware, jinpu just has a standard 1.0 http://ftp.
it's definitely .5 at 1000 tp for the first hit. had some really strange results at 3K, though.
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By Ragnarok.Fabiano 2017-07-17 07:47:01
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wasnt there some weird video going around with 2 sams taking down yakshi in under 1 min with cor geo sch buffs and jinpu spam ?
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By Sylph.Darkside 2017-07-17 08:41:02
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THere's a video of 1 sam(Tafari of Asura, if I'm not mistaken) Fudo spamming yakshi to death. Haven't seen one of two sams. Definitely gonna have to look now.
 Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2017-07-17 09:18:17
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You mean this? :O
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By Blazed1979 2017-07-17 09:42:08
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Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: »
You mean this? :O
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challenge accepted!
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By zaxtiss 2017-07-17 09:58:18
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hmm anyone know what cor rolls were used?
 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2017-07-17 12:45:15
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Havent had much luck using koga with jinpu. Masa did better (at least for me from what little testing I did).
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-07-17 12:51:00
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I was just playing around with Jinpu on Apex Crabs/Jagils in Dho Gates. Saw spikes of 25-30k over 75 WS but my average was 10k. This was with Quiltada/Yoran/Ulmia/Joachim/WHMMULE

ItemSet 352373

Valorous Mask 30acc/21att/4wsd
Cape 20str/20acc/10wsd
Breastplate Capped
Gauntlets 8STR/15att/13MAB
Greaves(lol) no mab...
Note I don't have Knobierreee either so I left the slot blank.

All in all far lower than expected after looking over this thread but not a perfect set.

EDIT: I was sub warrior for provoke/ran berserk/warcry/aggressor when they were up.
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2017-07-17 13:05:46
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Yea Koga AMIII isnt boosting the damage like I would expect. Maybe dojis base damage/tp bonus plays a role in those huge spikes when a multihit procs. This assuming that we arent saving 3000tp for each Jinpu.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 13:15:16
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Asura.Fiasko said: »
All in all far lower than expected after looking over this thread but not a perfect set.

I can say that I don't have a REMA gkt, but I certainly averaged more than 10k. I have same exact set + knob, +8 wsd valor hat, capped founders, and +3 legs, so possibly that made a difference. I will admit, though, that I could probably have done similar damage (or better) sticking to Fudos.

The one silver lining in this I did find was that I occasionaly hit 50k/60k Jinpu, but it was so infrequent for me to care. It was nice eye-catching number though
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 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-07-17 13:16:52
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Did another 115 Jinpus on crabs/jagil and focused more on getting WS off as close to 1000tp as possible and the average was just under 9k. I also only used Hasso, so no berserk/warcry like my post above.
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 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-07-17 13:18:26
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Asura.Fiasko said: »
All in all far lower than expected after looking over this thread but not a perfect set.

I can say that I don't have a REMA gkt, but I certainly averaged more than 10k. I have same exact set + knob, +8 wsd valor hat, capped founders, and +3 legs, so possibly that made a difference. I will admit, though, that I could probably have done similar damage (or better) sticking to Fudos.

The one silver lining in this I did find was that I occasionaly hit 50k/60k Jinpu, but it was so infrequent for me to care. It was nice eye-catching number though

1k tp? Did you happen to parse the average? I mean just in gear you have 15 more WSD and 15MAB on greaves.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2017-07-17 13:27:12
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I was messing with Norifusa+1, no Knobkierrie/Utu Grip/Regal/Niq rings and I was hitting 10k-21k with just trusts. Still higher than Fudo spam for me.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 13:29:11
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I wasn't keeping track of tp perfectly, was just spamming whenever it was ready chaining Apex Bats. I can check again, but I did use zerk/warcry/aggressor every time it was up. I'll parse son and only use jinpu and report that.

I forgot to mention that I was opening with Ageha (for 25% defense down which I know is huge), since ageha > jinpu chains and there's no reason to not use it. I guess your numbers would be more clear cut on pure damage, but I don't see a scenario where you wouldn't use Ageha to open for Jinpu, especially when solo.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 13:30:29
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Weapon was Umaru with str+15 acc+20 att+~~ stp+2, so it's a failry weak weapon.

Minor difference in sets: I used friomisi over ishvara
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By zaxtiss 2017-07-17 13:35:30
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hmmm why would you be spamming jinpu? isnt fudo still better?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2017-07-17 13:41:04
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Where were you the past two pages?
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By zaxtiss 2017-07-17 13:42:53
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umm at work so i guess i missed it lol. i guess ill have to try it out when i get home.
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By Asura.Fiasko 2017-07-17 14:21:39
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Cause its fun?

Changed it up. I swapped my sub to DRK and kept Last Resort and Hasso up when I could. Use Ageha on most of the mobs and kept up AM3 fulltime. WS went off 1500-2000 TP though.

I also dug up KParser so the WSAvgs werent skewed as much by Ageha/Rana.

ItemSet 352373

Tachi Jinpus
3615(low)/46892(high) 18111.63(avg)
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