The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By olson2189 2017-09-22 13:13:31
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Warcry is 700 TP bonus, not 200.

Thanks for catching that - I was only looking at the augment benefits from Agoge Mask+1.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-22 13:25:41
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Warcry is 500 TP Bonus with 5/5 Savagery then the Relic adds another 200 TP Bonus and +30 seconds duration. Warcry without any merits or relic is just +12.5% attack for 30 seconds.

The cut off I use is 2K, if my WS TP is under 2K it use's a Multi-Attack set, if it's 2K or over then it's using a WSD focused set.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-23 21:46:41
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Ok did some number crunching because I'm tired of seeing a legion of "new WAR's" spending all their gil on AG Ragnarok while skimping on ***like upgraded Relic head and TP / WS gear.

Based on high end super builds for each weapon, without doing something silly like TPing in Argosy +1.

These are the delays for the weapons with capped gear haste, capped magic haste and hasso (220/1024)

105.05 Montante
102.05 Montante +1
108.28 Zulfiqar
92.59 Ragnarok


((delay * hits) / average_hits_per_round) + 120 = Average Round time

5-hit No Sam's roll

420.2 / 2.106 = 199.525 +120 = 319.525 Montante
408.2 / 2.106 = 193.827 +120 = 313.827 Montante +1
433.12 / 2.072 = 209.034 +120 = 329.034 Zulfiqar
370.36 / 1.893 = 195.647 +120 = 315.647 Ragnarok

4-hit with Sam's roll

315.15 / 2.106 = 149.64 +120 = 269.64 Montante
306.15 / 2.106 = 145.37 +120 = 265.37 Montante +1
324.84 / 2.072 = 156.77 +120 = 276.77 Zulfiqar
277.77 / 1.893 = 146.73 +120 = 266.73 Ragnarok

Mont and Zulf will do higher average Reso's then Ragnarok, Ragnarok will do higher TP damage then the other two and has higher accuracy.

So all the "new WARs", don't spend all that time / effort chasing AG Rag at first, instead get a Zulf or Montante and then spend the time / effort on getting better TP / WS gear and a Great Axe build. Once that's done THEN go chasing down AG Ragnarok for those times where it's useful. A Zulf / Monte in good gear will do better then a Rag in *** / mediocre gear.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-09-24 01:18:09
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You should also consider Raetic Algol. It has high damage, high delay, and a lot of accuracy. I don't know if the MP -> Store TP functionality would be helpful in any way (haven't seen testing on this yet.)
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-09-24 07:25:32
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Saevel, I actually will thank you for that, that last post is SOOO accurate. Just wanted to say that. It seems to be the new thing that they think they must have AG Rag to even play the job, then get upset when they arent doing the dmg they think they should be.
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By Taint 2017-09-24 10:21:51
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Warcry is 500 TP Bonus with 5/5 Savagery then the Relic adds another 200 TP Bonus and +30 seconds duration. Warcry without any merits or relic is just +12.5% attack for 30 seconds.

The cut off I use is 2K, if my WS TP is under 2K it use's a Multi-Attack set, if it's 2K or over then it's using a WSD focused set.


How are you managing that quickly with GS?

Did you make a toggle? Do you lean towards a setting? Going from 1k to 2k TP happens very fast.
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By Sammeh 2017-09-24 10:28:46
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Taint said: »
How are you managing that quickly with GS?

Did you make a toggle? Do you lean towards a setting? Going from 1k to 2k TP happens very fast.

TP is tracked in Windower/GearSwap via player.tp variable.

I use the following for example to determine if Moonshade needed or not, Can also check if Warcry active via buffactive['Warcry']:
Code
function job_post_precast(spell)
	if player.tp < 2250 and spell.type == 'WeaponSkill' and player.equipment.main == "Chango" then
		equip({left_ear="Moonshade Earring"})
		windower.add_to_chat(10,"Adding in Moonshade Earring for more TP:"..player.tp)
	elseif player.tp < 2750 and spell.type == 'WeaponSkill' then
		windower.add_to_chat(10,"Adding in Moonshade Earring for more TP:"..player.tp)
		equip({left_ear="Moonshade Earring"})
	end
end

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By Sammeh 2017-09-24 10:32:17
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Does anyone know if another player (sub war) hits Warcry if your Savagery kicks in or only if you as War main does it?
 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-09-24 11:04:01
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Only YOUR warcry gets savagery.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-24 12:06:28
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Taint said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Warcry is 500 TP Bonus with 5/5 Savagery then the Relic adds another 200 TP Bonus and +30 seconds duration. Warcry without any merits or relic is just +12.5% attack for 30 seconds.

The cut off I use is 2K, if my WS TP is under 2K it use's a Multi-Attack set, if it's 2K or over then it's using a WSD focused set.


How are you managing that quickly with GS?

Did you make a toggle? Do you lean towards a setting? Going from 1k to 2k TP happens very fast.

I uses some logic at the start of precast that determines TP Bonus
Code
	if player.equipment.main == 'Chango' then
		TPBonus = 500
	else
		TPBonus = 0
	end
	
	if buffactive['Warcry'] then
		TPBonus = TPBonus + 700
	end


Then in the WS section
Code
if 	spell.english == 'Upheaval' then			
				TPBonus = TPBonus + 250
				CurrentTP = player.tp + TPBonus
				send_command('@input /echo TP Bonus '..TPBonus.. ' CurrentTP '..CurrentTP)
				
				if CurrentTP > 2000 then
				equip(sets.UpheavalA)
				send_command('@input /echo Upheaval WSD Set')
				else
				equip(sets.UpheavalB)
				send_command('@input /echo Upheaval DA Set')
				end				


This method enables me to do any sort of Weapon Skill TP based calculations on the fly and best of all, it never breaks or has a motens moment.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-24 12:07:58
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Sammeh said: »
Does anyone know if another player (sub war) hits Warcry if your Savagery kicks in or only if you as War main does it?

Savagery effects the JA on use and it applies to the entire party, meaning you give everyone a +700 TP Bonus for 60s, with some attack sprinkled in. This is what makes it so broken in high DPS situations, it not only boosts the WAR's damage but also every other DD present including the COR. Blood Rage is the same, 40% crit rate boost for 60s on everyone, does wonders for crit WS's like CDC.
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By Sammeh 2017-09-24 14:17:23
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Asura.Saevel said: »
it never breaks or has a motens moment.
Except if someone else gives you warcry - it assumes you're getting 700 tp when you're not? Hence why i asked the question about whether someone else's sub /war would give you the bonus.

Can you clarify?

thanks,
Sam
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-24 16:59:19
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Sammeh said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
it never breaks or has a motens moment.
Except if someone else gives you warcry - it assumes you're getting 700 tp when you're not? Hence why i asked the question about whether someone else's sub /war would give you the bonus.

Can you clarify?

thanks,
Sam

The game has zero ability to determine if the Warcry status is from a 5/5 Savagry WAR with Relic or from a PLD/WAR. It's the same with the Haste spells, there is no way to tell between Haste and Haste II, they are both the exact same buff ID.

Typically I tell people to just not use Warcry as /WAR, it does virtually nothing, only lasts 30s and the 2s JA delay is a hit to their damage. Nobody should be using Warcry if there is a real WAR in the party, ever.

Attack Boost = floor( (Warrior Level ÷ 4) + 4.75 ) ÷ 256

49 WAR = 6.6% attack boost for 30s, again not worth using.

Also that's not breaking, breaking is when you do something and your lua doesn't put on the gear or otherwise "isn't working". This happens all the damn time because people are passing around motens's based LUA's without knowing how to program or maintain them and thus they break frequently.
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By Afania 2017-09-24 17:16:11
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Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
It seems to be the new thing that they think they must have AG Rag to even play the job,

Blame the community, lol.

"Hey may I join your pt on WAR?"
"Do you have an AG Rag?"
"No"
"Need AG DD"

I keep emphasis that AG Rag and Zulfiqar/Montate (+1) makes virtually no difference on these forums over and over with BRD acc buffs, and yet people still act as if it's the only deciding factor on whether a WAR is endgame ready or not, need more vocal people to speak the truth.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-09-24 19:16:25
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Afania said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
It seems to be the new thing that they think they must have AG Rag to even play the job,

Blame the community, lol.

"Hey may I join your pt on WAR?"
"Do you have an AG Rag?"
"No"
"Need AG DD"

I keep emphasis that AG Rag and Zulfiqar/Montate (+1) makes virtually no difference on these forums over and over with BRD acc buffs, and yet people still act as if it's the only deciding factor on whether a WAR is endgame ready or not, need more vocal people to speak the truth.

That mentality gets annoying. I've even trashed AG DD dual wielding for fun with Club/Sword, Sword/Sword, Axe/Sword(Including Rag WARs). Even kept up and slightly edged ahead of Tizona/Almace BLU with equal buffs.

Basically:
Warcry Up:Savage Blade/Mistral Axe/Calamity/Judgment/Black Halo
Bloodrage:Vorpal Blade/Rampage/Hexa Strike

ItemSet 353373
I was only using Regal Ring for extra accuracy. I'm already at 84% Multi Attack which is super nice with Dual Wield.

The gear/moderate jp means more than the actual weapons do.



For a bit it was a PITA to even do Omen on my Mastered DRG with a Habile Mazraq until I showed the results

AG Weapons are nice, but not mandatory.

Also parsed very well using Fencer on bosses for fun.
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By Creecreelo 2017-09-24 19:37:23
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Sammeh said: »
Does anyone know if another player (sub war) hits Warcry if your Savagery kicks in or only if you as War main does it?

Savagery effects the JA on use and it applies to the entire party, meaning you give everyone a +700 TP Bonus for 60s, with some attack sprinkled in. This is what makes it so broken in high DPS situations, it not only boosts the WAR's damage but also every other DD present including the COR. Blood Rage is the same, 40% crit rate boost for 60s on everyone, does wonders for crit WS's like CDC.

Back when I was JPing War, I tested outside my Mog House with a friend to see if Warcry JPs worked on others to increase their att buff, and he said that his att remained the same even after I put several JP into Warcry. From this, it seems Warcry JP only affect the user (maybe other Wars too though that have JPs into Warcry/Blood Rage, that'd be interesting), and by this principle, it may be that Blood Rage is still just 20% Crit rate for other party members and 40% for the War.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-24 21:22:57
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Also parsed very well using Fencer on bosses for fun.

I wish Fencer gave some sort of Haste / Delay reduction because that's the only draw back to those builds. Unless you got a DNC around it's impossible to get anywhere near the delay floor. Going from (320/1024) to (220/1024) delay is a 45% improvement in speed which is ridiculous.
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By BlaTheTaru 2017-09-24 22:02:56
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Does war get Hexa now?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-24 22:06:33
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beryllium mace
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By BlaTheTaru 2017-09-24 22:33:30
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Das nice
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-09-24 22:34:51
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Cheap to make went 1/12 on +1 so worth a stack or 2 to make. Does not sell for crap though if u wana make gil on em at least on Lev.
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 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-09-24 22:38:25
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Afania said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
It seems to be the new thing that they think they must have AG Rag to even play the job,

Blame the community, lol.

"Hey may I join your pt on WAR?"
"Do you have an AG Rag?"
"No"
"Need AG DD"

I keep emphasis that AG Rag and Zulfiqar/Montate (+1) makes virtually no difference on these forums over and over with BRD acc buffs, and yet people still act as if it's the only deciding factor on whether a WAR is endgame ready or not, need more vocal people to speak the truth.

Oh I know, I dealt with it too, got laughed at and questioned when I decided to AG Rag first bc no one used melee... Then I made Ukon got questioned more... then I made bravura people stop questioning the more you prove yourself. Perseverance.
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 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-09-24 22:44:52
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Creecreelo said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Sammeh said: »
Does anyone know if another player (sub war) hits Warcry if your Savagery kicks in or only if you as War main does it?

Savagery effects the JA on use and it applies to the entire party, meaning you give everyone a +700 TP Bonus for 60s, with some attack sprinkled in. This is what makes it so broken in high DPS situations, it not only boosts the WAR's damage but also every other DD present including the COR. Blood Rage is the same, 40% crit rate boost for 60s on everyone, does wonders for crit WS's like CDC.

Back when I was JPing War, I tested outside my Mog House with a friend to see if Warcry JPs worked on others to increase their att buff, and he said that his att remained the same even after I put several JP into Warcry. From this, it seems Warcry JP only affect the user (maybe other Wars too though that have JPs into Warcry/Blood Rage, that'd be interesting), and by this principle, it may be that Blood Rage is still just 20% Crit rate for other party members and 40% for the War.
Creelo we should test this dude, both master wars.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-25 07:33:01
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Blood Rage's effect is very noticeable on party members and scoreboards showing a greater then 20% increase. I haven't checked to see if the +60 base attack from Warcry effects party members, with my mule that's something super easy to verify. We might have to do a little data gathering to see about BR's effect, my initial parsing showed a larger then 20% increase but that's not good enough and I don't like unfounded assumptions.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-25 07:36:44
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Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
Afania said: »
Sylph.Atigevomega said: »
It seems to be the new thing that they think they must have AG Rag to even play the job,

Blame the community, lol.

"Hey may I join your pt on WAR?"
"Do you have an AG Rag?"
"No"
"Need AG DD"

I keep emphasis that AG Rag and Zulfiqar/Montate (+1) makes virtually no difference on these forums over and over with BRD acc buffs, and yet people still act as if it's the only deciding factor on whether a WAR is endgame ready or not, need more vocal people to speak the truth.

Oh I know, I dealt with it too, got laughed at and questioned when I decided to AG Rag first bc no one used melee... Then I made Ukon got questioned more... then I made bravura people stop questioning the more you prove yourself. Perseverance.

It was pimping out my WAR back when everyone insisted that using BLMs or BLU's was "the only way" to do anything. Then I started using a 6-man melee setup to burn through all Reisen T1~T2 (long before the evasion or pet nerfs) and did it in a little over an hour.

Same with the Aeonics, people would say they were trash, there was even someone on this forum who said Chango was ***. Then a bunch of people started demonstrating what happens when you properly use those and how silly powerful they can become.
 
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By 2017-09-25 08:02:24
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-09-25 09:35:24
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Originally

WAR
GEO
GEO
BRD
COR
WHM

this was with one GEO doing vex + attunement. Eventually we dropped the second GEO for another DD. I've done it as BLU, DRK and WAR and WAR makes it stupid fast with Warcry.
 
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 Sylph.Atigevomega
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By Sylph.Atigevomega 2017-09-25 10:01:40
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Yeah Saevel, despite not getting to use it often with the group i was running with at that time, I still geared it, had it updated and ready for the chances they asked for it lol. Then I got in with my current LS, and the door flew open and they released me! It has been so much fun allowing to push the envelope. I do not have Chango yet, that is my next goal. Debating on Conquerer or not though, kinda between Conq and Liberator. I can run some tests on BloodRage too, post findings.

Edit: Also for those that have used it, I just edited some of the structural parts of my WAR lua. Simplified a bit and add 3 new set possibilities (Dw, Fencer, Quint (for Omen quint spear spamming) have been added). Have not altered the gear here just the base changes.

https://pastebin.com/ahztGkt4
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By Odin.Slore 2017-09-25 15:02:02
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ItemSet 353383

Looking for some help with my resolution set. Not getting the good numbers im looking for but not sure where I am going wrong. I know I need regal ring but keep losing lots on it, will get eventually.

Paths for argosy +1 are recommended paths from guide.
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