The Pirates' Lair: A Guide To Corsair

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The Pirates' Lair: A Guide to Corsair
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 Shiva.Eightball
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By Shiva.Eightball 2017-05-16 20:26:28
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the way i look at max duration as a DD cor is, if i have to reroll all the time thats time taken from DDing. Of course max roll duration will take time but getting as much as you can will absolutely be better all around.

also not having to run in mid fight on something hard to reroll and die is also good.
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By Afania 2017-05-16 20:32:05
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
the way i look at max duration as a DD cor is, if i have to reroll all the time thats time taken from DDing. Of course max roll duration will take time but getting as much as you can will absolutely be better all around.

also not having to run in mid fight on something hard to reroll and die is also good.


I'm always under the impression that duration actually increase roll potency because longer crooked card bonus.

And what Eightball said, reroll mid fight is the worst ever.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-16 20:42:07
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Sure, but considering the random timing that could happen with any amount of roll duration or not at all. Doing WoC/Kirin? Fight over in under 5min. Doing Omen? Rolls are going to wear a couple times anyway, might be during a fight, might not, can't tell with either duration.

It's nice to have, sure. But I don't think it should be #2 priority after roll potency.
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 Sylph.Jrpg
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By Sylph.Jrpg 2017-05-17 13:47:42
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Only way for me to get a higher duration is to drop Snake Eye merits into Winning Streak, and I just don't think it's worth it.
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 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2017-05-17 16:25:43
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Sylph.Jrpg said: »
Only way for me to get a higher duration is to drop Snake Eye merits into Winning Streak, and I just don't think it's worth it.

For longer fights, Escha, zone clears, marathon pops, CP, etc, you should be riding the 11 bonus and bust/reroll to your heart's content. Getting that initial 11 is particularly easy in Escha by abusing revits at the goblin after you zone in.

For stuff like Ambu, quick one-and-done zergs, yeah, you can drop some duration and go 5/5 Snake Eye. But even then the difference between 3/5 and 5/5 Snake Eye is pretty slim.

I dropped Snake Eye to 3/5 and never looked back.

Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
It's nice to have, sure. But I don't think it should be #2 priority after roll potency.

Not like it's hard to get a 9-min roll. Empy gloves, Compensator, a few merit points, you're there. Might as well bake that into your roll potency set, and never have to worry about it again.

Edit: oops forgot Relic hat.

ItemSet 344774
- if you have regal necklace, drop the ring
- fill out the remaining slots w/ -DT
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 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-05-17 16:29:36
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+1 for 3/5 Snake Eye for me personally. I acknowledge that you can be 5/5 Snake Eye and still be a contributing member of society however.
 Shiva.Kohh
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By Shiva.Kohh 2017-05-18 21:59:39
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
Lakshmi.Veika said: »
edit: As a new COR who has just about 0 gear for the job. What should I focus on first?

1) Roll duration/potency set: 9min+ duration, Barataria ring, at least,
2) JA/Roll-enhancement JSE: Lanun and Chasseur's sets,
3) Chasseur's Bottes!!!
4) -DT set: don't be that COR who can't stay alive while re-rolling mid-fight,

Don't even bother working on DD sets before you have the above filled out. I can't tell you how much it drives me up the wall to see *** CORs who had the time to get a Death Penalty show up to events with 7-min rolls or less and/or die the second they run in to try to re-roll. It's unconscionable.

After that, whether you focus on melee/WS or ranged/WS sets will entirely depend on how your LS/friends approach battles. If they like to employ RNGs, build out your snap/ranged tp/last stand sets. If they like to melee things and don't mind you contributing in-close, work on melee tp/savage/requiescat sets. Leaden is something you'll want to gear for either way.
oh lawd!!! lol I have an idea of who! xD
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By Afania 2017-05-18 23:27:35
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
4) -DT set: don't be that COR who can't stay alive while re-rolling mid-fight,

Don't even bother working on DD sets before you have the above filled out. I can't tell you how much it drives me up the wall to see *** CORs who had the time to get a Death Penalty show up to events with 7-min rolls or less and/or die the second they run in to try to re-roll.

Speak of dying trying to re-roll, anyone has updated Hp boost/dt- set for re-roll weakened situations?

This is the highest I've found, so far:

hp boost/meva with shell V(for NM with magical aoe attacks but no physical aoe attack)
ItemSet 351358
Gun has Hp +50, HQ su3 legs has higher meva and mdef than AF+3 legs, but lower hp.
Total hp boost: +1160
Total MDT-: 24% (capped mdt- with WHM shell V)

Without shell V:
Neck > Lorica +1
Ring > vocane +1
Gun > Malison +1
Body> Carmine +1
Legs > mummu +1

That caps mdt- without shell V.

hp boost/pdt-
ItemSet 351360

Total hp boost: +1087
This set happened to have capped mdt- with shell V as well, just has lower meva and mdef than previous set.

Not sure if I'm missing any other combo that's better.
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-19 00:21:02
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My Snake Eye is 5/5 and staying that way. I'd much rather have an improved chance at max potency than some extra duration. 5/5 makes it a 50% chance to roll an 11 on use (above a 6) and 20% chance to not use Snake Eye when used. I know it's still gambling...but that's the job.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 00:45:57
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
5/5 makes it a 50% chance to roll an 11 on use (above a 6)

Accordnig to wiki it's 20% @5/5
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-19 00:48:32
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Afania said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
5/5 makes it a 50% chance to roll an 11 on use (above a 6)

Accordnig to wiki it's 20% @5/5

It's 50% chance for an 11, it's 20% chance to not get used up.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 00:56:20
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
5/5 makes it a 50% chance to roll an 11 on use (above a 6)

Accordnig to wiki it's 20% @5/5

It's 50% chance for an 11,


Where do you see 50%? Everywhere I read it says 20%.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Snake_Eye
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-19 00:58:50
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Afania said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
5/5 makes it a 50% chance to roll an 11 on use (above a 6)

Accordnig to wiki it's 20% @5/5

It's 50% chance for an 11,


Where do you see 50%? Everywhere I read it says 20%.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Snake_Eye



Edit: My Assumption is/was that it's 10% per merit put into it, but I suppose it's not a localization issue. It's also probably 40% not 20% going by my definition. But I get 11's off snake eye a fair bit, wouldn't be surprised if it was 40-50% but really hard to test it.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 01:24:27
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Since every single wiki says 20% (5%x4 merits)max and in game text isn't correct, I decided to look for original source about where'd that 20% @ 5/5 came from:

This is the original discussion:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30730/snake-eye-adjustment/

apparently its believed to be 5% per merit because update note said so.

This is jp blog testing which indicates 40% max:
http://lifie.blog.jp/archives/12169009.html

jp in game text also says 10% per merit, so english wikis are all wrong? (for 5 years?)

If it's really confirmed that English wiki is wrong I can change that, I guess.
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-19 01:50:50
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The 20% is from the enhanced relic effect from the Relic legs which are 4% per merit, so 20% total. That's a chance to reset Snake Eye upon use.

The 50% (or 40% if that's what JP wiki states) is for the roll to insta-11 when it's used above a 5.

There are two effects to Snake Eye.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 01:54:37
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
The 20% is from the enhanced relic effect from the Relic legs which are 4% per merit, so 20% total. That's a chance to reset Snake Eye upon use.

The 50% (or 40% if that's what JP wiki states) is for the roll to insta-11 when it's used above a 5.

There are two effects to Snake Eye.

I know, I've been talking about auto 11 (not recast reset)this entire time.

For some reason both wiki says 5% per merit, for 20% total @ 5/5( first merit doesn't give bonus, just unlocks ja)

Both bg-wiki and wikipedia says 20% at 5/5, and in game text is incorrect. The link I posted above flat out said in game text is incorrect. But jp wiki says 10% per merit as well, so which wiki is correct? .___.

Anyone else has the source indicating in game text being incorrect? Or is in game text being correct this entire time, we just wrongly believed that it's incorrect because update note was wrong?

Honestly it's been 5 years since snake eye merit adjustment, I can't remember where'd the original source came from, at all.
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By Davorin 2017-05-19 02:39:19
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Quote:
[dev1111] Corsair
Snake Eye
Recast time reduced from fifteen minutes to five.
Additional merit points no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase by 5% per point the likelihood that the next roll will result in a sum total of XI when a 5 or higher is showing.

Source.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2017-05-19 02:40:45
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English Update notes listed 5% but the JP update notes and the in-game(both JP & Eng) have always said 10%!

Eng Notes
JP notes

Based on how all the other merit text works the total should be 40% not 50% first merit is to unlock and then extra are for the added effect.

Also it would be pretty easy to test if only 1 merit had a 10% chance to still hit an 11 standing in Selbina or Mhaura to reset.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 03:11:52
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Chiaia just beat me, I did a search on official forum and I can confirm that English official forum did said 5% per merit, but jp forum said 10%.

Welllllll, it's more likely to be 10% per merit it seems, unless someone test it and says otherwise.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-05-19 03:13:57
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So to revise, I'll stick with my 40% chance at 11 and 20% chance to reset Snake Eye over 20%/12%.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 03:55:00
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I think the argument about 3/5 WS 5/5 SE v.s 5/5 WS 3/5 SE is that, outside of situations that clearly favor one setup over another( for example, Ambuscade favors 5/5 SE since it ends so fast and escha favors 5/5 WS with free 11s), it's really just crook card affects roll potency.

3/5 WS= 8:38 min roll if I calculate it correctly, excluding compensator tp lose.

5/5 WS= 9:30 min excluding compensator.

Assuming doing chaos/sam like usual and crooked on chaos, @8:38 min the 2nd time you roll chaos it'd lose CC bonus, or have 1:22 min without chaos. On the other hand at 9:30 min your more important roll (chaos) gets full time CC bonus.

On Chaos roll it's more likely to stop on No.3 (Snake eye to 4), No.4 (Lucky), No.6 (Snake eye to 7 for 40% chance of No.11), No.7 (I don't think most people snake eye on 7, no?), No.8 (Snake eye to 9) No.9 (Snake eye to 10), No.10 (Snake eye to 11) No.11

And out of all these 8 numbers that we stop on, only 3 of them takes the advantage of 20% extra chance for 11, which is 6, 8 and 9, and that's assuming you snake eye on 6 instead of double up on 6.

V.s full time 20% potency bonus.

Anyone really good at math has the ability to math out the avg chaos roll potency with 5/5 SE full time CC bonus v.s SE 3/5 but uses snake eye more aggressively on 6, 8, 9 and maybe 7? I'd try to do it now if I don't have get up in 5hr ._.
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By Zeak 2017-05-19 05:37:19
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To add another point of view, I've had 5/5 Snakes Eyes for almost 4-5 years now, but just recently changed to 3/5 for full duration. The biggest reason why is due to a certain-job-that-will-remain-nameless-because-of-how-easy-it-is-to-derail-topics-on-this-forum. Basically, I've had quite a few situations where I've had to roll, warp, change jobs, and pop NMs, so that extra 1~ minute gives me some leeway to come back and get ready on a non-DD job. I've even had to do this in some melee/MB set-ups because I play very late and there are few people available (and usually next to no multi-boxing). I would PREFER 5/5 Snake Eyes, but I have to adjust to what the group needs. Or at least, what helps the majority of the time. You could also be like me and always wind up in groups where the DD die every 3 minutes, making BOTH roll duration and Snakes Eyes completely pointless in the end.

Anyway, I find both arguments 100% convincing; what's important here is WHY they both work. We're at a point in time where there are just an insurmountable degree of variables in group set-up, so player discretion tends to play the largest role in min-maxing. An informed players will always produce the best results regardless of their decision being "standard" or not. If someone literally only logs on to do Ambuscade, then yes, they should got 5/5 on Snake Eyes. The same situation can occur to someone who frequents Omen and can always get sub-8 minute clears on floor bosses. What's important is that the player has the knowledge to make an informed decision, and the adaptability to adjust to the environment they find themselves. So long as they have the tools, information and can communicate with their peers, it's very rare that such a person will give a poor performance, even if the statistics say otherwise.

Basically, I'm just deterring the mindset of an "ideal" or "optimal" set-up, because there are as many of those as there are active subscriptions. However, I do encourage further discussion on the subject, so long as it remains as informative as it has been; stressing the "Whys" and "Whens" as a focal point. The nightmare of the current augment systems should really be an attestation to why this is important. Every time someone asks me which Reisen augment they have is better, I have to strangle information out of them to actually help. I've actually found it much easier, in the long run, to just explain the rules/formulas/set-ups, rather than crap an entire set on them that may or may not become outdated next update. I'll digress and close this by saying I might be a bit biased; I just believe that encouraging profundity in a community leads to better results, ultimately. But again, I see nothing wrong with this discussion so far, and hope others perceive both sides as such.
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By eliroo 2017-05-19 07:51:50
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Afania said: »
Anyone really good at math has the ability to math out the avg chaos roll potency with 5/5 SE full time CC bonus v.s SE 3/5 but uses snake eye more aggressively on 6, 8, 9 and maybe 7? I'd try to do it now if I don't have get up in 5hr ._.

There is a lot more math to it than that. You also have to consider the effect of getting an 11 (Pretty much guarantees all your other rolls will be 11s thus after). A lot of factors play into it but Snake Eye for sure will allow you to be more consistent with your 11s.

Duration is just, well Duration. Pretty sure that only every Other Crooked Card matters because of Random Deal and outside of Crooked Card then the only thing that matters is if you have to do some crazy job switching like Zeak. In that case you could easily swap merits.
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By zaxtiss 2017-05-19 09:42:39
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<< cor noob how would getting an 11 make it so you get all 11's on the other rolls?
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-05-19 09:55:58
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zaxtiss said: »
<< cor noob how would getting an 11 make it so you get all 11's on the other rolls?

Once you have an 11 roll you can bust on your next buff's rolls without penalty. Allowing you to keep rolling until you get an 11 on the second buff. Then that bonus applies when rolling the next buff whether it's the first buff wearing off or a buff for a different job class.
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By Afania 2017-05-19 10:40:36
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Zeak said: »
Anyway, I find both arguments 100% convincing; what's important here is WHY they both work. We're at a point in time where there are just an insurmountable degree of variables in group set-up, so player discretion tends to play the largest role in min-maxing. An informed players will always produce the best results regardless of their decision being "standard" or not. If someone literally only logs on to do Ambuscade, then yes, they should got 5/5 on Snake Eyes. The same situation can occur to someone who frequents Omen and can always get sub-8 minute clears on floor bosses. What's important is that the player has the knowledge to make an informed decision, and the adaptability to adjust to the environment they find themselves. So long as they have the tools, information and can communicate with their peers, it's very rare that such a person will give a poor performance, even if the statistics say otherwise.


This is what I'm trying to do, to organize information about which one being better.

I had 5/5 SE long time ago when htbc was a thing and that's all I ever do, eventually as I switch to escha I changed to 3/5 because strategy requirments. Then I just got lazy to change back to 5/5 in ambu era. I'm not 100% convinced that 5/5 is always forever the best in all situations, especially full time crooked card can be done easily now. It's honestly easier to figure out by calculating average roll potency.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-05-19 10:58:50
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I have had both 5/5 SE and 5/5 WS and have changed back so many times, but now with the ability to nearly full time a crooked roll, I am 5/5 WS and not changing back. Its not hard to get 11 rolls, making 5/5 SE less of an issue. you can always roll a 9, SE to 10, RD and SE to 11, then roll at your hearts content. I usually do that with crooked.

However for me even more important than rolling for one party is when im rolling for 2-3. At that point how can you not advocate keeping near 10 min rolls? If your rolling just 2 parties it wont be really unheard of that roll#1 for party #1 is probably at 5 mins at best by the time the mob is popped, and most fights last that long and many longer.

As a person who specializes in DD jobs, I would much rather have a cor that keeps me fulltime buffed at 80% potency, than one who can keep me perfect rolls, but cant maintain it since hes no longer in pty. Normally that little extra attack, or stp wont change the outcome of a fight, but you can assure yourself a full min without buff at the end of a fight (say WOC for example) sure can be the cause of a wipe.
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 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2017-05-19 11:44:24
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In terms of merits, guess it all depends on what content you frequent as COR.

For equips tho, no excuse not to have max duration in gear.
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 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2017-05-19 12:11:37
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Quote:
For equips tho, no excuse not to have max duration in gear.

I remember reading someone saying that old unupgraded Empy Hands would result in very slightly longer rolls than the 119 ones. Anyone remember the details?
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2017-05-19 12:22:47
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Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
Quote:
For equips tho, no excuse not to have max duration in gear.

I remember reading someone saying that old unupgraded Empy Hands would result in very slightly longer rolls than the 119 ones. Anyone remember the details?
I never seen the math but have questioned this myself when I revamped our Phantom Roll page since the old ones were 10% duration they MIGHT win depending if its only 10% on base(would only be 30s) or if its after other duration gear and merits. Since we have gotten a bunch of duration gear in last few years.

Edit: Screw it testing it now after I upgrade them. Got 50+ I seals and 56 Coins stored.
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